Tonight
Dec 26th 2008 | 10:21 am
#107
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 520
Re: Tonight
I'm not sure why I thought it would be slated, possibly because there are a few "characters" that sometimes don't hold back their opinions 
The problems are too great to deal with all at once, there is no accountability, there is too much red tape, the police are under resourced, there is absolutely no way of dealing with these problem familes. The police call in social services, social services won't act as they want to keep families together, the kids are left to roam causing trouble, asbo's are taken out but there is no way of really "punishing" these kids, the families get moved on but more families take their place, a little bit harder and a little bit rougher than the last, the ones that have been moved cause trouble in the "new" area those that move into their places cause trouble here, they all get moved again and so it goes on and on and on, it is like we and they are trapped in some sort of merry go round because they aren't dealing with the problem only moving it and in the place more come in that are also trouble and had been moved on.
I just want out now, I think it will take generations to fix these issues if they can be fixed at all.
It has to start with a proper funding of the police force, proper powers to deal with the problem kids, less beurocracy, less paperwork, more action. Then and only then will there be any improvements.
The problems are too great to deal with all at once, there is no accountability, there is too much red tape, the police are under resourced, there is absolutely no way of dealing with these problem familes. The police call in social services, social services won't act as they want to keep families together, the kids are left to roam causing trouble, asbo's are taken out but there is no way of really "punishing" these kids, the families get moved on but more families take their place, a little bit harder and a little bit rougher than the last, the ones that have been moved cause trouble in the "new" area those that move into their places cause trouble here, they all get moved again and so it goes on and on and on, it is like we and they are trapped in some sort of merry go round because they aren't dealing with the problem only moving it and in the place more come in that are also trouble and had been moved on.
I just want out now, I think it will take generations to fix these issues if they can be fixed at all.
It has to start with a proper funding of the police force, proper powers to deal with the problem kids, less beurocracy, less paperwork, more action. Then and only then will there be any improvements.
Y
Dec 26th 2008 | 11:55 am
#108
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 40,070
From: Ontario
Re: Tonight
If it boils down to your living in a nasty part of the UK and not liking it then fair enough. If you move to a nasty part of Canada you won't like that either. I thought you were making a more general point about the UK vs. Canada. Have you considered moving to a nicer part of the UK?
Dec 26th 2008 | 10:16 pm
#109
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 407
Re: Tonight
If it boils down to your living in a nasty part of the UK and not liking it then fair enough. If you move to a nasty part of Canada you won't like that either. I thought you were making a more general point about the UK vs. Canada. Have you considered moving to a nicer part of the UK?
Dec 26th 2008 | 10:22 pm
#110
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 520
Re: Tonight
I think you'll be rather surprised in that case upon your return. I have had the luxury of living in an area considered to be highly affluent in NW England - 'isolated' to degredation by looking on the outside. However *some of* the public school educated kids are even worse than their inner city comparisons. The point you're missing is that the chosen isolation you speak of no longer exists in the UK, certainly living in an upmarket area lessens the efffect only slightly. What we have been speaking about is a general disregard for authority and society in general. I'm sure the same is true in Canada - but you better believe it's to a much lesser extent. That was the point of the lady's post.
Where people say "good morning" to each other still, & the shops - (4 of them) date back to the 1600's, you can hear the church bells on Sunday morning, the village square as its own Christmas tree, people still have respect for each other. etc etc...
Then 3 weeks ago a local girl was working on her own in 1 of the four shops when at 8:30pm some scum-bags turned up hit her in the face, and threatened her with a machete!!
As you can imagine, the poor girl is still traumatised by the event. It rocked this sleepy little village to the core!
My point is this Dingbat, if it can happen here in a tiny little village, then you're in for a shock!
Also, consider this.. Ask anyone in the Uk if they know of anyone who has had their car stolen, house broken into, or some form of criminal act aginst them in the last 2 years..
I personally know of 4 people, and Christmas eve, we were all stood in our village pub, and when you think that we represented 000000.04 of the population of the Uk, and we'd all been the subject of a crime inside two years!
I think on that statistic alone tells you something!
Y
Last edited by Yogi-Bear; Dec 26th 2008 at 10:24 pm.
Dec 26th 2008 | 10:42 pm
#111
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 520
Re: Tonight
If it boils down to your living in a nasty part of the UK and not liking it then fair enough. If you move to a nasty part of Canada you won't like that either. I thought you were making a more general point about the UK vs. Canada. Have you considered moving to a nicer part of the UK?
"She can't wait wait until she reaches Canada?"
Plus, under every post she's posted on here is does say:
"Target Moving date July 2009!"
Y
Dec 26th 2008 | 10:44 pm
#112
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 407
Re: Tonight
Because he is a wind up merchant, that is all, read back through all his posts, he is just highly entertaining that is all!!
Dec 26th 2008 | 11:09 pm
#114
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 520
Re: Tonight
I think very cheap booze/drugs is only part of the issue. The other part is that we are in to third and fourth generation "oinks" - those that have never worked, that think that see "gangs" as "family" where you have half a dozen kids with half a dozen different dads none of whom have any involvement in the children's upbringing, it is a complete and utter breakdown of society and family.
We were talking to our local community police about this and if they pick these kids up off the streets, some of whom are as young as 8 or 10 and take them home of an evening, the parents/mother is rarely there which means that the police effectively end up "babysitting", something they just don't have the resources to do so they don't pick them up or send them home anymore because there is no "home" to go to.
In typical "tinytears" style, I have just been crying whilst reading an interview with Rhys Jones's mum in the news of the world, for those that don't know Rhys was shot whilst walking home from his football training by a gang member who was targetting another gang member. One of the things that resonated so hard with me is this:
That is exactly how our estate is. And that is why I fear so much for my kids, we are literally trapped between two warring gangs, one from the estate behind and one front the estate in front and yet our estate is lovely, new, clean, full of hard working families.
On another note Karen Matthews who was just put away for kidnapping her own daughter once called Shannon a twin and yet I was completely baffled because none of her siblings were being listed as the same age. Turns out she thought that because Shannon and her brother had the same FATHER it made them twins.
Sadly this is the problem with the UK, in many places (NOT EVERYWHERE) there has been such a massive break down in society, in family and in values that I can't see how it can ever be fixed. This is third and fourth generation now and it is completely engrained into them now. I went to school with a girl who at 13 got pregnant, her daugher went on to get pregnant at 13, making my friend a grandma by the age of 27. Her granddaughter aslo got pregnant at 13 meaning at the grand old age of 40 my friend is a great grandma. Of course all these girls had more than one child, this is just the eldest of each. There isn't a father around for any of them, no permenent men and I think that there are something like 6 or 8 kids at each generation. It absolutely shocks me to the core when I see this "girl" because our lives went down such different paths. Is it choice, is it circumstance, is it breeding? I don't know, I do know that when I have seen her in the past and we have chatted that she thought it was fabulous that she was "raking in so much money" by having all these kids - maybe that is to do with it, but really what chance do they all have and all her kids and her grandchildren and now great grandchildren?
You just have to watch Jeremy Kyle every day to see how far society has broken down.
Sorry this turned into such a long post but I do think it is more than just drugs or booze, though those are contributory factors that's for sure, but it is the breakdown of society and family. These kids are turning to the gangs for a sense of family and a sense of belonging. It makes me so sad and so angry in equal measures.
We were talking to our local community police about this and if they pick these kids up off the streets, some of whom are as young as 8 or 10 and take them home of an evening, the parents/mother is rarely there which means that the police effectively end up "babysitting", something they just don't have the resources to do so they don't pick them up or send them home anymore because there is no "home" to go to.
In typical "tinytears" style, I have just been crying whilst reading an interview with Rhys Jones's mum in the news of the world, for those that don't know Rhys was shot whilst walking home from his football training by a gang member who was targetting another gang member. One of the things that resonated so hard with me is this:
That is exactly how our estate is. And that is why I fear so much for my kids, we are literally trapped between two warring gangs, one from the estate behind and one front the estate in front and yet our estate is lovely, new, clean, full of hard working families.
On another note Karen Matthews who was just put away for kidnapping her own daughter once called Shannon a twin and yet I was completely baffled because none of her siblings were being listed as the same age. Turns out she thought that because Shannon and her brother had the same FATHER it made them twins.
Sadly this is the problem with the UK, in many places (NOT EVERYWHERE) there has been such a massive break down in society, in family and in values that I can't see how it can ever be fixed. This is third and fourth generation now and it is completely engrained into them now. I went to school with a girl who at 13 got pregnant, her daugher went on to get pregnant at 13, making my friend a grandma by the age of 27. Her granddaughter aslo got pregnant at 13 meaning at the grand old age of 40 my friend is a great grandma. Of course all these girls had more than one child, this is just the eldest of each. There isn't a father around for any of them, no permenent men and I think that there are something like 6 or 8 kids at each generation. It absolutely shocks me to the core when I see this "girl" because our lives went down such different paths. Is it choice, is it circumstance, is it breeding? I don't know, I do know that when I have seen her in the past and we have chatted that she thought it was fabulous that she was "raking in so much money" by having all these kids - maybe that is to do with it, but really what chance do they all have and all her kids and her grandchildren and now great grandchildren?
You just have to watch Jeremy Kyle every day to see how far society has broken down.
Sorry this turned into such a long post but I do think it is more than just drugs or booze, though those are contributory factors that's for sure, but it is the breakdown of society and family. These kids are turning to the gangs for a sense of family and a sense of belonging. It makes me so sad and so angry in equal measures.
We once did some alteration work at a school, in a inner city part of Birmingham. One of our electricians was told to F****ff by an 8 yr old because he'd told him put HIS tools down!
When he reported this to the headmistress, she said:
"What do you want me to do about it? Speak to his Mom maybe? She'll just tell me the same as her son told you!"
The best is, she later went on to say that, that poor kid had got 2 half brothers, and one half sister in the same school and he didn't even know it!
Basically, because his old man couldn't keep his zip shut, and his Mom thought a condom was for blowing up for birthday parties!
As you say we're 3rd and 4th generation of this now, where they consider it to be MAD if you do work!
Y
Dec 27th 2008 | 12:58 am
#115
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 459
From: AB since Jan 2009!
Re: Tonight
Dec 27th 2008 | 2:11 am
#116
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 40,070
From: Ontario
Re: Tonight
No wind up here just a steadfast refusal to believe that everyone in the UK lives in fear of hooligans at the bottom of their garden. I know that our neighbour here does, though I don't think it's justified, and wonder if the same proportion of people in every country fear their compatriots.
Dec 27th 2008 | 3:14 pm
#117
Banned
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,824
From: the GTA
Re: Tonight
No wind up here just a steadfast refusal to believe that everyone in the UK lives in fear of hooligans at the bottom of their garden.
Everyone reading/responding to this thread MUST believe this to be true just as nobody believes everyone in Canada lives in daily fear of being hit by stray bullets, as has happened to innocents in Toronto in recent years. We have gangs in many of Canada's larger cities, but different types of gangs than those in the UK. Our gangs seem more concerned with activities involving drugs, theft and prostitution rather than the terrorizing of citizens just for the sheer pleasure of it. There is no doubt that in certain areas of the UK the yob culture exists just as in some parts of Canada a handgun culture exists. I say this not to diminish the fear and dread experienced by tinytears and many others on a daily basis, but because I also believe most UK residents go about their daily business without such fears. I have no doubt whatsoever that what she states is true for her and she should continue her fight to extract her family from that untenable situation.
Everyone reading/responding to this thread MUST believe this to be true just as nobody believes everyone in Canada lives in daily fear of being hit by stray bullets, as has happened to innocents in Toronto in recent years. We have gangs in many of Canada's larger cities, but different types of gangs than those in the UK. Our gangs seem more concerned with activities involving drugs, theft and prostitution rather than the terrorizing of citizens just for the sheer pleasure of it. There is no doubt that in certain areas of the UK the yob culture exists just as in some parts of Canada a handgun culture exists. I say this not to diminish the fear and dread experienced by tinytears and many others on a daily basis, but because I also believe most UK residents go about their daily business without such fears. I have no doubt whatsoever that what she states is true for her and she should continue her fight to extract her family from that untenable situation.
Dec 27th 2008 | 4:01 pm
#118
Cynically amused.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,648
From: BC
Re: Tonight
Also, consider this.. Ask anyone in the Uk if they know of anyone who has had their car stolen, house broken into, or some form of criminal act aginst them in the last 2 years..
I personally know of 4 people, and Christmas eve, we were all stood in our village pub, and when you think that we represented 000000.04 of the population of the Uk, and we'd all been the subject of a crime inside two years!
I think on that statistic alone tells you something!
Y
I personally know of 4 people, and Christmas eve, we were all stood in our village pub, and when you think that we represented 000000.04 of the population of the Uk, and we'd all been the subject of a crime inside two years!
I think on that statistic alone tells you something!
Y
Dec 27th 2008 | 4:27 pm
#119
Oscar nominated
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 55,309
From: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Re: Tonight
Meanwhile, here in NB people continue to leave their cars outside the stores, with the windows open; shopping and other belongingsvisible on the seat, keys in the ignition etc etc presumably unconcerned about theft.
Dec 27th 2008 | 5:38 pm
#120
Cynically amused.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,648
From: BC
Re: Tonight
Some are worse for crime, some better. I hope that the UK pulls itself out of the mindset that currently prevails, I really do. 
