Re: Thatcher dies
 

Who pays for the funeral? Is it 'time to pay up for Mumsie"? as Mark said, allegedly.

Re: Thatcher dies
 

Yes but if they'd been successful on their mission there would have been many more British lives lost.

'Our mission in the south wasn't just to cruise around on patrol but to attack,' says Bonzo in a previously unseen interview. 'When they gave us the authorisation to use our weapons, if necessary, we knew we had to be prepared to attack, as well as be attacked. Our people were completely trained. I would even say we were anxious to pull the trigger.'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2003/may/25/uk.world

Re: Thatcher dies
 

Couldn't agree more.

She had more balls than any MP or PM Britain has had since, she had the courage of her convictions , unlike the wet lettuce idiots we've had since.

Re: Thatcher dies
 

Indeed....people with a political or idealogical axe to grind tend to be somewhat selective when it comes to historical fact as this thread would tend to indicate...:sneaky:

Re: Thatcher dies
 

So to sum all this up - she had a pair of massive testicals and was the second coming. Ok got it now.

Re: Thatcher dies
 

The ship was retreating outside of the exclusion zone and was, according to your article, "ready to return the next day if necessary". Meanwhile there were talks ongoing to find a peaceful solution.

Re: Thatcher dies
 

I take it you have chosen to ignore the comments:

"Captain Héctor Bonzo also admits that, far from retreating from the British Task Force as he sailed west with two accompanying destroyers, his change of direction was a temporary manoeuvre"

"The revelations come in a documentary to be broadcast tonight on the National Geographic Channel, in which Bonzo, commander of the General Belgrano, reveals the fact that by the end of April 1982, one month into the war, the Argentine navy had changed its rules of engagement, and he was under orders to fire on any British warships that came within range of his guns"

"...the British Government had been made aware of Peruvian efforts to find a peaceful solution to the crisis caused by the Argentine invasion of the Falklands"

"According to Bonzo, the Belgrano's move before dawn on 2 May was only a temporary manoeuvre. Woodward explains the potential impact of this manoeuvre: 'I think a lot of people outside didn't understand how important a threat Belgrano and her destroyers were"

Now, of course, I accept that you have much greater knowledge about the events than those that were there but still ...

I aslo note that you have not replied to my query regarding the Sir Galahad. Do you care to now?

Re: Thatcher dies
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22080238

Tony Blair comments on the partying following the death.

Re: Thatcher dies
 

I just feel SOOOO proud to be British today after reading the news papers!!
Rioting and fires - way to go :thumbdown: could be back in the 80's :thumbdown:

Re: Thatcher dies
 

+1

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I've mentioned before that I stopped being proud to be British in 1982.

Something to do with Maggie I recall.

Re: Thatcher dies
 

You would think these people wold have moved on. Whatever her failings, it's been 20 odd years since she was around. Some people (mainly those who are "celebrating" like yobs in Britain) take little personal responsibility for their own success and remain warped and twisted about Thatcher. It's pathetic behaviour.

Re: Thatcher dies
 

So it was outside the exclusion zone and retreating... and it was still sunk. There's been a massive controversy about it, people "there at the time of the events" can make mistakes. The Belgrano had orders that it could attack, it didn't and it certainly wasn't engaging at all at the point it was sunk.

It was a temporary manoeuvre? Was Thatcher aware of this? Highly doubt it.

It's regrettable and sad that people aboard the Sir Galahad died. It's not exactly the same set of circumstances though. Also how is it relevant to the character of Thatcher? She was a pretty hateful person. What are your thoughts on the sinking of the Titantic?

edited to add: Just to clarify I'm not celebrating her death at all, but neither am I sad in any way whatsoever.

Re: Thatcher dies
 

really good post !

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I agree, look at the photo's on the front pages - most of them are less than 20! not even born when Mrs T was in power!! Scum....

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I met you on a train once.

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Surely it shouldn't be a state funeral. It should be privatised - it's what she would have wanted. :)

Re: Thatcher dies
 

Should Churchill have evacuated Coventry?

She was a Prime Minister during a war and made a decision based upon advice that those on the ground and those with the necessary expertise provided to her. Or are you suggesting that such people advised against the sinking and she overruled them?

I wasn't present at the sinking of the Titanic so I have no knowledge as to what actually happened. With the benefit of hindsight, it is quite easy to poke holes with the events that led to and following its sinking. Clearly, the loss of life was tragic.

At no stage have I indicated that anyone should be sad at the death of this woman. Those that are have their own reasons for that; those that aren't have their own reasons too. It's too subjective an issue for sensible debate.

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What did she do in 1982 that was so odious? I was a young nipper at the time so have no idea.

The Falklands War?

Were you still living in the UK at that time, or had you already left?

Re: Thatcher dies
 

Or possibly Clem Attlee

http://www.thespiritof45.com/Trailer

Re: Thatcher dies
 

I dunno. History doesn't really remember the state of the economy unless it's a big deal (depression, south sea bubble etc) and anyway it's no coincidence that north sea oil started to come on line in the early 80's allowing her to actually increase public spending by quite a bit.

She'll be remembered for the miners strikes and her role in the end of the cold war.

Re: Thatcher dies
 

They are using the mineworkers pension fund to fund the funeral ;)

www.minorspensionfundingthatcherdeath.co.uk

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/...m/thatcher.jpg

Re: Thatcher dies
 

As the notable 20th political theorist, Loadsamoney once mused, “The only thing you need to know about politics is that Mrs. Thatcher done a lot of good for the country but you wouldn’t want to shag it.”

Re: Thatcher dies
 

Reading the comments in this thread has given me a new found appreciation for Loadsamoney.

Re: Thatcher dies
 

Your confusion is quite apparent - you may wish to take the opportunity to read this paragraph again to assist you in understanding the situation.

"Captain Héctor Bonzo also admits that, far from retreating from the British Task Force as he sailed west with two accompanying destroyers, his change of direction was a temporary manoeuvre."

In the circumstances it's doubtful that any responsible PM from any party would have acted any differently.

Re: Thatcher dies
 

If she hadn’t imbued the country with the spirit of Horatio Alger I’d have never been inspired to purchase my own, admittedly second hand, Ford Escort van back then. It was blue a one and I named it Maggie. :wub:

Re: Thatcher dies
 

:lol: So patronising. I didn't realise I was talking to an expert, armed with his one Guardian article.

So the change of direction away from the British wasn't retreating? How would you describe it? It's stated in that article (which seems to have been taken as absolute authority on the issue) that the ship could return "if deemed necessary".

But you're right, she behaved admirably. Now, how do you feel about her support of Apartheid?

Re: Thatcher dies
 

Yes, but it's not like the british knew what his plans were. It's just so happens they got it right in retrospect.

However, I'll never understand people who complain about "ethics" in war. It's a ****ing war. What do people expect to happen other than a lot of fighting and death?

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Yeah you're right. It's a war so everyone should just go around committing atrocities. Awful point.

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That word you used. I don't think you understand what it means.

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Maybe just admit you're wrong and admit ethics do play a part in war and we can all move on.

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It was an old American WW2 ship i seem to remember.

Funny how she never set sail an amader of cruise ships to keep Hong Kong.

Re: Thatcher dies
 

I love all these experts, sitting in the comfort of their living room, analyzing and criticizing a decision that had to be made in seconds.

Belgrano posed a threat, the exclusion zone was not the extent of operations and was dealt with accordingly under Article 51 of the UN Charter. The exclusion zone did not have much if any meaning in maritime law. It was to try and give the British commander more time to assess a threat.

Any threat has to be dealt with as the commander on scene feels necessary. Had the Belgrano not been sunk and gone on to attack a British warship, all hell would be raised as to why we did nothing to stop it.

Sinking of the Belgrano was no different to the sinking of any of the British warships. If you are in a war, there is always the chance you will be shot at, wherever you may be in the theatre of operations.

If there was a chance someone was going to shoot at me, I was going to shoot first for self preservation.

Sinking of the Belgrano was a tactical decision, the holocaust was an atrocity.

And the Titanic, that was not in a war zone, but icebergs do bite back.

Re: Thatcher dies
 

It's actually only one day. The poisonous bitch has f***ed up Britain since 1979 and her toxic legacy is still there.

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I would describe it the way the Argentine Navy have described it: a legitimate act of war

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If you equate wealth with toxicity, perhaps.

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I wasn't going to bother but I remember reading that the Belgrano's position had been followed for about two days.

You make it sound like it suddenly appeared and an urgent response was called for.

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Perhaps you should re-read and reconsider that remark? 'Cos it's nonsense.

Edit: How old are you?

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Feel free to quote any other source if you consider the Guardian to be biased and unduly supportive to Mrs T. and the armed forces on this subject.

The exclusion zone is a side issue anyway - the declaration of such a zone is for the benefit of neutral shipping. In a war situation the heading and position of a belligerent ship has no bearing on its status. It was considered a threat (armed with ship sinking missiles) and after the sinking the Argentine navy stayed in port so the threat was neutralised.

Clearly on apartheid she was wrong and out of step with popular opinion. I don't think many would dispute that.

Re: Thatcher dies
 

It does seem that Britain could have done a bit more sabre rattling before launching an attack.