Should I just try for a random degree?
 

As I have no clue what kind of job I actually want to have, and the ones I have a strong interest in and could see myself enjoying are not feasible due to mental health issues, I was thinking maybe it would be best to just get a random degree in something, just so I have one, which seems to be the min. more and more employers are wanting?

I am stand offish, as the cost of a degree is pricey, and the debt large, and I am not sure if there would be a financial return on one, and I'd just end up with student loans and no benefit from them.

I just made my last payment for my student loans, and now I can apply for rehabilitation with the government and potentially qualify again, so I can actually start to seriously consider school.

My hurdles are:

Not having a clue what I want to do. (My interests can really translate into a career or job that pays much above min. wage.)

Not having access to a school since there is no public colleges in this area. (but I can eventually move to Vancouver so its solvable.)

Being 35 and having to work and go to school, school for me is really hard, and I've never succeeded in working and going to school, I do well when I can concentrate on just school, but add in work, and school work suffers.


On the college assessment test I did last year, I scored high enough to get out of any English entry requirement, but my math was well, I won't go there, but it was really bad. I don't understand math, my brain doesn't click with it. I do well in normal math addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, but I really get confused with anything above basic math, it just doesn't click, and math has been what held me back in high school as well. I know I could not pass a grade 12 level math class, lucky if I could pass a grade 9 math class.


Sorry for another post, as I know I should not be so clueless at my age about these things, but I am, and I just don't always think of things that are right in front of me.

Thanks.

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

I think it would help if you had a idea of what you would like to do. What interests or hobbies do you have ?

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

My main interests are travel, airline related interests, aquariums and ocean life, and rail roads.

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

Marine biologist?

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

Why don't you look into becoming a flight attendant? You could get a degree in hospitality, or possibly look into college courses. (I just searched
"flight attendant college" and found this program at Seneca College - http://www.senecacollege.ca/fulltime/TFS.html)

The schooling would probably be less intense given what you've said about your academic challenges; college courses often are more practical and hands-on, and less about the academic side, if that makes sense, which it sounds might be a better option for you.

(I don't know this for sure, I'm just guessing, but being a male in a female-dominated industry might also make it a bit easier for you to get a job with an airline. I don't know that for sure, though, just going on a logic train of thought!)

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

I've thought about it before, when I was working for an airline, I came close to transferring into in flight, but went to operations instead as it paid more.. (The airline I worked for only paid flight attendants 13,500/yr but we were the lowest paid airline in the business for all positions, we succeed by having low wages.)

Air Canada Rouge is hiring, but you need a Canadian Passport and I don't yet have citizenship so they wont consider me.

Air Canada mainline not sure if they require a Canadian passport or if they just require a passport, but Rouge specifically wants Canadian passport.

I have worked in the airline business in Canada on the ramp, in Abbotsford a few years ago, worked Westjet flights but as they contract out virtually all airports, there was no future, and the pay was low, so I moved on to better paying work.

I am contemplating applying to Air Canada in Vancouver for ramp, but they don't guarantee hours, and they are vague and just say 0 to 32 a week, I could handle 32, but I could not live on less.

I really did enjoy working for an airline, and I didn't leave voluntarily, but the airline I was with struggled after 9/11, and in 2003 I ran out of seniority to keep a position, so was finally laid off.

They then went onto to merge, and merge again, so they no longer even exist, and nobody I worked with is employed with the new company as they all got outsourced or laid off along the way.

But it was hands down the the best job I had,, even with the low pay. (started at 6.04 in 1998, and ended at 8.83 in 2003.) but there was more over-time then you knew what to do with, so while I was part-time and only scheduled for 20 hours a week, I would work 50-55 hours a week to make enough to survive, but it was still fun.

I would certainly go back to an airline if I had the opportunity to.

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

It doesn't sound like it's an easy industry, but some education in the field might help you out. When would you qualify for your citizenship? The program I linked to at Seneca has all the major airlines listed as program partners, so there may be opportunities to get in with those airlines via the program, at which point they may make exceptions for not having a Canadian passport if you otherwise have right to work in Canada (what's your current status?).

Rails - could you otherwise look into being a driver for GO, Via, or CN Rail or one of those? (Not sure what education backup would be best for this area, though!)

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

I think a degree is too ambitious right now Jsmith - but it is something you could build up to. I'm not being negative, but realistic for you. And a random degree will be expensive and tiresome if it is not grabbing your interests strongly enough. Take a certificate first but choose something that could be put towards a diploma next.

Even part time, a certificate could be quite a few modules. Try it on for size and see how you like a distance course versus being able to find one evening a week to attend a class (personally, I prefer to go to a class). Break yourself in gently. Going to back to school and firing up all those learning brain cells can be exhilarating and challenging!

Like you, I can't do maths for anything, and it has held me back certainly - but exposure little and often can start to make a few things click. Repetition. Buy one of those study guides and then go to a college class at the lowest level available - probably Grade 9 or 10. I have a brick wall that goes up with math - I have flashbacks to sitting around the kitchen table with my dad, in tears! But at my age I have learned to concentrate on the things I am good at and use those.

You're not too old - good luck with finding something. :thumbup:

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

Accountancy.

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

I wouldn't recommend going back to school if you have any tendency to perfectionism. I went back to college and was very stressed out worrying about the homework and not being able to get things just right.

Maybe distance learning would work for you? http://www.athabascau.ca/programs/index.php

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

Is that the Canadian equivalent of the Open University? My husband plans to start an engineering degree with the OU this year but as we are moving to Canada I'm not sure if it's better to use a Canadian institution instead.

Jsmth - I agree with others, don't do a degree unless you are sure about what you want to do.

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

Unless what you want to study involves math don't worry about it.

I am terrible at math...it almost feels like I have a mental block, or perhaps some sort of learning disability, when it comes to math. Despite that I have a Bachelor's degree, a Master's degree, a college diploma, and am four years into a Doctorate.

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

Yes, it is.

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

Have a look at www.Alison.com, see if there is anything on there that interests you 1st.

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

I hope you've started writing. ;)

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

I think Jsmth is an American citizen as well, so the airline might be a little more lenient on that one, since the American passport is basically the same as a Canadian one reputation wise. (But the Canadian one's still better ;))

But thinking about it I think the issue is if a PR spends too much time outside Canada (which you would be doing most likely as a flight attendant unless you only mainly served on Canada-Canada flights) they lose their status. If they have citizenship, they have guaranteed right of return to Canada.

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

Air Canada Jazz are hiring - including ramp attendants: https://jazz.taleo.net/careersection...ch.ftl?lang=en

There are various different jobs on indeed.ca for airlines (including aircraft cleaners, passenger service etc. ) http://ca.indeed.com/Airline-jobs

If you have a choice, do what you enjoy.

:)

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

There is also the continuing education option. Most educational establishments have some distance learning, part time or evening courses in various certificates and diplomas. Some may give you credit to transfer into a higher level course later on (but you would need to read the small print). With others the same modules can count for more than one certificate if you choose your subjects carefully. Maybe start off with a certificate level and see how you like it, then upgrade to a diploma if you want.

Not sure where you are in BC, but as an example BCIT has quite a few part time courses including certificates in airport operations and trade and transport logistics: http://www.bcit.ca/study/programs/list.php?l[]=2

Another option could be to take some training in something more general e.g. business, marketing, HR, health and safety, computing, etc., and then use that to try and get a job in a field or company you are interested in but with more generic skills to get your foot in the door that way maybe?

I'm kind of re-training at the moment and I'm not really sure where I want to go job wise so I'm doing a management certificate where I can select a wide range of different modules to go towards a final certificate. Some of the modules I enjoyed and some I didn't, so my next step might be to go for a certificate in one of the areas I like, say HR or public relations. Half of the courses I've done for the management certificate can be transferred to another certificate, so I only have to do half the modules required to get a second certificate!

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

As someone who's currently studying and working full time I can tell you it's a very hard slog. I work a 9 day fortnight so I can get a study day every second week and spend every Sunday reading and doing assignments. It takes a lot of discipline to keep motivated to carry on doing both. I also really, really hate academic writing, so it takes a lot of pushing from my family to make me actually sit down and write papers. This is for a degree in a subject I want to study, so I can't imagine how difficult it would be to keep going if it was something I didn't really care about.

It sounds to me like you really don't know what you want to do. Rather than spend money on a degree in some random subject you would be better served to take a step back and think about what you really want to do. At only 35 you are still young enough to take some time to get into an area that holds some interest rather than just studying for the sake of doing something. At 35 you have at least another 30 years of work ahead of you so it may as well be in something you're interested in.

I started my degree at 48 and will finish when I'm 52. If I'm not too old for a career change then certainly you're not!

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

I think this would be a great idea!

Doing a 'random degree' is going to be of limited use I feel.

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

Sociology. Then specialize in ethnographic research of bar and pub culture. Of course there would have to be a lots of participant observation in the field. ;)

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

He could probably get a thesis out of it :lightbulb:

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

Research has shown that perceived disability in math is a learned trait, often passed on from family.

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

I want to disprove that. My dad is a surgeon, so is a huge math and science wiz, whilst i hate math and science with a passion and dont want a thing to do with them career wise. (Which is probably one of my big issues finding a decent career path)

I passed math with a decent mark (80 percent) but that was because the teacher literally gave the notes out and they were super detailed and such and he was really good etc.

I suspect my current science mark is pretty :thumbdown: at the moment, and i suspect it to stay like that. Partly because in ON you dont need science beyond 10th grade and grade 9 and 10 dont matter for uni.

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

I am crap at maths, really really crap.

My son is an absolute whiz at maths and has been since he was 3.

That research doesn't really add up.

;)

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

True. I learned from my family that I was disabled at Maths. ;)

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

My dad is a math wiz and I can remember sitting at the kitchen table so frustrated when he was trying to explain how do some of the problems I was working on, and it just not clicking.

I really think being good at math is wired into the brain, some people are naturals, some can manage enough to pass and get through it, and some just struggle no matter how hard they try.


I know Westjet contracts out, as do all the US carriers now for ramp. I do keep en eye out for actual airlines hiring in Vancouver in an attempt to score an interview.

I just applied to Air Canada again for ramp, and Horizon (part of Alaska Airlines) for passenger service yesterday.

I also applied at the Vancouver Aquarium for janitor, I'd just enjoy working there regardless of position, the work atmosphere is worth it. Tricky place to get an interview though, I have been trying for a couple years now.

Its my worry I wont have enough time to study and do the work on top of commuting 2 hours each way to school, + working + work and sleep. I am not sure there is enough time in the day for it all....

I may try distance learning again, it didn't go to well last time, I really benefit from the structure of the classroom and instructor and the distance learning lacked both. Structure for me is very important in doing well in school, but I might be able to do the subjects I am naturally interested in through distance, and then do the harder one's in school to reduce the time spent commuting.

I am still just planning, and investigating, and nowhere near making any sort of decision, that is still at-least 2 years away....

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

Rouge wont even let you get to the application phase without agreeing that you have a Canadian Passport, if you leave the box unchecked they say sorry.

There is also the whole spending too much time outside Canada thing, not sure how that would work either.

I now qualify for citizenship and just gathering all the stuff I need to apply, and waiting on CBSA to see if they can provide me with entry information at the border so I can get those dates as accurate as possible, filed an information request with them a few days ago.

I am not sure though I fit into the culture Rouge is looking for based on their website...lol

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

A BA in Random Studies ?

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

Definitely not passed on from my family. My mother's math skills are excellent, before retiring my Dad was a pipefitter/industrial plumber so used math every day, and my younger brother was studying Physics at university before switching to Economics. In my family it is just me who has this problem with math.

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

Ah. Well if your eligible get on that application ASAP. Out of curiosity are you a British citizen too or just US / soon to be Canadian?

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

:) I'd be very curious as to what subject colchar is studying. I'd assume something involving frothiness.

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

Fairy tales I believe. ;)

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

James,

I don't know you, but I read your posts here, and I like reading them.

I'd say, in general, don't do a "random" degree. What are the studies you already did (even if you didn't finish them)? I did a very random one, & didn't finish it. Not having a degree hasn't hampered my job ops, having started & not finished has.

Air Canada requires minimum PR status for crew, & *prefers* 2 languages. It's been a while since I looked at the others in that domain, but I'm pretty sure the requirements are similar. The recruitment process for cabin crew in most airlines requires mainly skillful acting talents, regardless of one's qualifications and aptitudes.

Ramp staff: I frequently see ads; if you already have experience, I'd say go for it, & call up your former bosses/colleagues for contacts/plugs!!

I've some other thoughts, but I'll pm them :)

S

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

I have a Canadian friend who I met in China, who worked for Air Canada,. She must if worked for them for at least 25 years as when she retired she was given a 'golden ticket' - free flights with them anywhere in the world - may explain at nearly 70 years old, she is the most travelled person I know.

She was fluent in French (first language), English, Greek and Spanish though.

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

Yes Air Canada does have preferred language requirements, and its why I never get a call for any customer service positions with them, just too many people who know another language, plus Air Canada has to give preference to French/English speaking applicants.

I have applied on the ramp in Vancouver, but haven't gotten any calls from them.

All my old co-workers from my airline days are long gone from the airline industry, all have been laid off, outsourced, or they got fed up and left. I am in contact with a few, but like me no longer have contacts in the industry, and they all live in the US having never lived or worked in Canada, so I have no contacts in Canada in the airline world. I did but we have lost contact and no clue where to find them.

The biggest issue with ramp, is really no airline in Vancouver has it in house anymore, Air Canada might be the only one left (I am not sure about the small airlines like Air North and such). I know Westjet outsources, as do all the US airlines I know of, United did have it in house, but they now outsource.

Horizon (Part of Alaska Airlines) still has CSR's and hire from time to time, I just fail to actually get an interview. I do know all their recruitment is done from Seattle head office, which makes it hard as well, as there is on direct point of contact person locally that can be contacted, and you have to apply online, no other option.

If the outsourcing companies offered benefits, and a suitable wage, I'd consider them, but they are all part-time, nearly min. wage, no benefit jobs, so its not worth it.

Westjet I have had some interviews with over the last few years, but they hire based on corporate culture, and experience really isn't anything to them if you don't match their ideals and what they want culture wise, so I never succeed to the final stages of hiring, never gotten past the phone interview, so I don't really count them as an option, plus except for Calgary, and Fort Mac, best of my knowledge they outsource the ramp everywhere else in their system.

For the jobs I would enjoy, I was born 20 years too late, had I been born in 1958, I could have had a nice career with an airline before the outsourcing craze started in mass. lol

I worked for America West on ramp from 1998 to 2001, then operations 2001 to 2002 (then I had a choice to be laid off, or transfer to passenger service, so I transferred) then passenger service 2002-2003 and then they outsourced the airport I was at, and there were no openings in a city I could move to, so I left the company in May 2003.

I worked briefly for US Airways (pre-merger) in a temporary position when they were in the process of outsourcing and replacing long term employees with cheaper labor, but I was laid off 6 months later.

America West merged with US Airways, who has now merged with American Airlines, and nobody I worked with at America West survived the first merger with US Airways, they all either left voluntary or involuntarily and we have all lost contacts with anyone left in the industry.

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

Just US right now, and Canadian PR. I have native status in the US with a tribe, but it doesn't give me any benefits in Canada, but its not really a useful citizenship even if the card says I am...lol

I've never even been to Europe, I did all my travels the other direction from North America to Australia, and southward into Mexico and the islands of the Caribbean, and within North America.

I only found this website when searching for immigration info back in 2005 when I was doing my paperwork, and seemed interesting and eventually joined.

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

My degrees are in History.

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

That's what I thought. The Jackanory of academia. :p

Re: Should I just try for a random degree?
 

Just read this elsewhere and thought it pertinent...

If you feel you endure the workweek just to get to the payoff of the weekend, you're in the wrong business. Find work you enjoy; then you won't see time off as a chance to finally do something fun, but as a chance to do something else fun.

While you'll never love everything you do in your professional life, you should enjoy the majority of it.

Otherwise you're not living–you're just working.