Oink

Thanks for reminding us of your service. Lest we forget.

dbd33

That doesn't make a lot of sense. If you mean "none", then why post it?

MikeUK

Maybe a picture of all the graves at the side of the Vimy memorial would be better than some stone and bronze 'art' in ottawa...

or maybe better yet a picture of all the land around the world that can't be used because its full of land mines....
that will really go well with "lest we forget"....... certainly I'm sure its a poignant reminder to the civilians left behind !

ultrarunner

Since we are in Canada, and Ottawa being the capital.....the monument in the pic represents

Novocastrian

Just to clarify my position. Like many others, I do respect and remember the sacrifices made by ordinary Canadian, UK, French, US, Russian and German working stiffs in both world wars. Like many others too, I object to the convolution of these sentiments with assumed support for the now professional militaries of any and all of these countries.

As many know, I have a connection to Normandy and just this summer I went quite some distance out of my way to visit this Canadian War Cemetery to the south of Caen.

Almost Canadian

No mention of the Japanese stiffs I note.

I simply cannot fathom the distinction between professional and non professional personnel. To me it is like blaming the civil service for the decisions made by politicians or, by analogy, the environmental decisions made by politicians upon the research of public sector professors. I mean, you accept the salary, therefore you must agree with them.

Novocastrian

Nor of the Italian, Greek, Albanian, Croatian, Serbian, Australian, New Zealand, Norwegian, Finnish, Malaysian, Dutch, Belgian, Polish, Hungarian, Austrian, Czech, Slovakian, Irish stiffs. I'm sure I've still missed many.

What's your point? They were all coerced or brainwashed by failed or failing political numbskulls into laying down / putting at severe risk their lives for something they thought of as a country.

The rest of your post I'll ignore with the pity it deserves.

JamesM

Whilst the topic is slightly controversial in some respects I have admired alot of the debate from afar.

I feel that this point has been vastly under explored.

It's not so much that I agree with Michael Moore but when in Boston in April of 2010 I experienced an exhibition by the US Army.

After the show I had the pleasure of drinking with some uniformed US Marine's. They were not quite the brain dead war enthusiasts that certain propoganda had lead me to believe. I was actually mildly impressed with their views of the world and how liberal being in the army had made them.

All that being said I got the impression that all of these guys were from small towns and that their "choice" to join the army was the way out of stacking shelves at a Wallmart that had bled what was left of their town dry.

It's for the above reasons that I don't object to remembering the modern day soldier.

Stack shelves for the rest of your life if you are lucky........or join the army.

If anything it's a chance to reflect on the choices that some of us have been lucky to have versus many of those in combat situations whether they are soldier or civilian.

Novocastrian

I agree with a lot of those parts your post which I've not quoted. But here I'd like to add that many a time I've thanked the non-existent gods that I was born just a bit too late to be conscripted (in the UK).

Since then (in the UK, and at later dates in most jurisdictions), soldiers if not civilians have had a choice about whether or not they'd be in combat situations.

London Mike

As I said much earlier in this thread, it's impossible to be express misgivings about the nature of remembrance day without being criticized for being apparently unsympathetic that soldiers have died. This is unfortunate, and is all over this thread.

Let's just make one point clear: no-one for a second suggests that it's not terrible that soldiers die or are seriously injured in war. Yes, these people should be remembered and honoured somehow. However, my point has been, and continues to be, that there is an almost exclusive focus on the military on remembrance day when it should really be about all those who have fallen in wartime. Civilians never get to choose whether to be a potential casualty of war, nor are they paid to put their lives on the line.

All I'm advocating for is some balance, therefore.

dbd33

I don't think that's remarkable, nor is it particularly American. The poor, be they literally starving at the time of the Boer War, or residents of sink estates with no job prospects, at the time of the Falklands war, have long been faced with the grim choice of joining the army or emigrating to the colonies. Some unfortunates suffered both fates.

I doubt many people choose either option out of genuine free will, more likely they feel that things can hardly get worse than they are. Domestic police actions and then the prairies must give them pause.

ultrarunner

I bloody well hope not

So what are your suggestions or causes of action for this "balance" then?

Domino

There were a large number of civilian organisations who were represented at the London Remembrance Service and March Past. They suffered and died and are not forgotten, but were unlikely, with notable exceptions, to have left their home shores.

All those who lost their lives, irrespective of their uniform (or lack of), race, sex or religion are remembered on just one day in the year. That you have the opportunity to make comment is due in great part because of the ultimate sacrifice they made. They didn't want it to finish that way, but it did.
We should show them all the respect that is due, and trust that if it should ever happen again we will be willing to protect our familiies and homeland.

regards
Dom, (ex Royal Navy, Malaya, Aden)

macadian

Amen to that!

MikeUK

Well the ones that lie at the root of this debate were the one that never left their shores, they were and are the ones who through no fault of their own as residents of the hosting nation, have become as the new order likes to call it collateral damage and until they become part of remembrance it will slowly lose it validity in an interconnected world.
A world in which the public through the news and social media now gets to see both sides good and bad….