Almost Canadian

None of that deals with the facts.

She has made comments that he suggests (I don't know where he was or if he has/had the medical condition he suggests renders her accusations questionable) mean that her version of events could not have happened. I am not defending him as I have no idea what happened and, if it did happen, I would be happy to pull the trigger.

Jingsamichty

I went and re-read your post that I replied to. Indeed, you have set out the "facts", as we are meant to understand them... Woman makes allegations. Man makes defence, on TV. People generally appear to disbelieve the man. All this is fine. Then we get to your last sentence, "Strange times we live in."

Why is that strange? Most people, and I'm sure as a lawyer you've seen more examples than most, tend to not believe outlandish defences to plausible allegations. What is strange about that?

dave_j

Epstein.
A man who knew too much for his own good.
Looks like a couple of patseys are lined up to take the fall...
Andrew and others would have breathed a big sigh, convenient wasn't it?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...in/4082679002/

spouse of scouse

Is it usual practice to arrest and charge correctional officers in the US if a prisoner dies on their watch? Or does it depend on the 'status' of the prisoner?

mikelincs

It might be if the 'suicide' wasn't actually suicide, whhich is what many people have said, given the connections of many of the people in Epsteins Black Books, I suspect there would be a lot of them not wanting him to give evidence, and with the wherewithal to do something about it.

caretaker

If they can pin sleeping on duty on civilian guards who'd worked double shifts instead of members of the corrections officers' union they'll have less opposition.

Almost Canadian

I haven't watched his appearance on TV.

I get it, you believe he raped her. At this time, based upon what I have read, I don't

Danny B

It is truly mind boggling that he had access to 'items' that helped him commit suicide. I have worked in jail cells both in the UK, and here at the RCMP detachment in Kamloops, BC and the protocol for high risk inmates is strongly adhered to.

It seems beyond belief that he had access to a ligament to hang himself while the two jail guards slept at the SAME time.

This sounds like an MI6 job.

dbd33

We know, from the famous picture, that he had inappropriate physical contact with her so it's just a matter of how far we think that likely to have gone. If we believe the rest of her story, that she was obliged to have sex with friends of Epstein and Maxwell, then her story is, I think, more plausible than his. Do you not believe any of what she has to say or do you think that, despite his being English, Prince Andrew is an innocent, cuddly, kind of a guy?

Siouxie

Age of consent - consensual sex... not necessarily rape or 'underage sex'.

dbd33

Wouldn't it have been rape in New York though not in Chelsea or on Paedo Island?

Almost Canadian

I haven't seen any pictures showing any form of inappropriate physical contact. Are you referring about the one with him, her and another female?

Having had to deal with a number of the members of the royal family in the past, I have no particular liking of any of them.

I am unable to describe anyone that I have ever met as an innocent, cuddly, kind of guy and, having never met him, I would not use those words to describe him either.

I have to admit that I had heard her say anything and I have only read what the BBC has written about this and, from what I have read, I prefer his version of events to hers, primarily on the "sweating" issue.

dbd33

Ms. Roberts and Prince Andrew are in the left foreground. She is wearing floral trousers and had a bare midriff. The Prince has his arm around her waist. Ghislain Maxwell stands to the right grinning. If they are lovers, and in a jurisdiction where they are allowed to be lovers, then the pose is affectionate. If that is not their circumstance, and I don't think it is, he ought not to be embracing her. He's a powerful man and she's a child; it's inappropriate.

I don't have a strong opinion either way, I wouldn't invent their role. I wouldn't want to be them. I wouldn't exempt them from the standards of behavior expected of everyone else.

Where I was going with that is that some cultures are more given to contact than the British are. Touched by an old Italian a teenager might think "Yuck" but accept it as the way of things. The English have no cultural excuse.

Why do you think he stayed with Epstein and Maxwell if not for their exceptional hospitality?

dbd33

Exceptional.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/22/prince-andrew-epstein-foot-massage

Jingsamichty

Victoria Roberts/Giuffre was about 12 years old when she worked at Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort. She was about 14 or 15 when she first met Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein, and was 15 when she became sexually involved with him... this much was told to the FBI in 2013.
https://www.insider.com/epstein-accu...festyle-2019-8

It appears beyond doubt that Prince Andrew was a regular visitor to Epstein who was well-known for hosting sex parties with girls like Giuffre on the menu. Prince Andrew was photographed with Giuffre at Maxwell's house. It is a matter of fact that Epstein admitted to, and was convicted of, procuring underage girls for prostitution.

How many people do you know who are notorious procurers of underage girls for prostitution? I'm sure it's none, but if you did know one, would you go to his house and cuddle young girls? Would you go to his house for 4 days after he came out of jail for procuring underage girls for prostitution?

You are, of course, perfectly entitled to believe Prince Andrew did no wrong. But we are entitled to question your judgement of what is proper, or right, or legal, based on your stated opinions. For what it's worth, I think you are being deliberately obstructive just for reasons of BE sport. I don't actually think that you, as a parent to young women, believe that Prince Andrew's behaviour is anything other than abhorrent and obscenely entitled.