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British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   The Maple Leaf (https://britishexpats.com/forum/maple-leaf-98/)
-   -   PM Boris (https://britishexpats.com/forum/maple-leaf-98/pm-boris-926655/)

dbd33 Dec 8th 2019 10:36 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12775738)
I cant believe there are still people who vote for Political parties and that party elects who they believe is fit to govern the country. Granted you have to believe or have a belief but at what stage do you throw your hands up and decide not to vote as they are all as bad as each other. The difference between a promise and a lie is when a politician makes a promise.
They are not ll as bad as each other, Trump and Johnson are dishonest and personally disreputable in a way that George W. Bush and Margaret Thatcher were not. It's dangerous to lump them all in together as that's the path to thinking Trump and Johnson tolerable as members of government, or dogsitters.

Shard Dec 8th 2019 11:05 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 12775770)
They are not ll as bad as each other, Trump and Johnson are dishonest and personally disreputable in a way that George W. Bush and Margaret Thatcher were not. It's dangerous to lump them all in together as that's the path to thinking Trump and Johnson tolerable as members of government, or dogsitters.
I agree. At least with Trump it's transparent dishonestly and a byproduct of his obvious narcissistic personality disorder. Johnson is somehow more subversive as, unlike Trump, he's intelligent but nevertheless hellbent on playing the demagogue in order the fulfil his ambitions for power.

Thairetired2016 Dec 8th 2019 2:43 pm
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12775738)
I cant believe there are still people who vote for Political parties and that party elects who they believe is fit to govern the country. Granted you have to believe or have a belief but at what stage do you throw your hands up and decide not to vote as they are all as bad as each other. The difference between a promise and a lie is when a politician makes a promise.
"not to vote" isn't a solution as your missing vote could easily help the guy you least want.
As a non Brit I hope the chosen won't be BJ.
But I fear he will be the choice of too many.

dave_j Dec 8th 2019 4:53 pm
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by Thairetired2016 (Post 12775821)
"not to vote" isn't a solution as your missing vote could easily help the guy you least want.
I couldn't agree more. I'm not voting because I don't live there and have no plans to return.
However I used to argue that everyone must vote who can, and those that don't have no right to moan or comment on the outcome. I, personally always voted and certainly voted for most of the prominent parties depending on circumstances.
My comments are those of an interested outsider and I have no party axe to grind but as always, the electorate will get the government they deserve and too often this has nothing to do with the party in 'power'. Boris may huff and puff but it's the integrity of 'Sir Humphrey' that we should look to and 'Humpy' willing Brexit will get Dun.... at last.

Jingsamichty Dec 8th 2019 8:35 pm
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 12775770)
They are not ll as bad as each other, Trump and Johnson are dishonest and personally disreputable in a way that George W. Bush and Margaret Thatcher were not.
Agreed. It genuinely is frightening to see so many people being persuaded that Johnson is a more trustworthy leader than Corbyn. Even people like John Major, Ken Clarke and Michael Heseltine don't want him to be PM, yet the idiots who read the Daily Mail can't get enough of him.

Thairetired2016 Dec 8th 2019 9:48 pm
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by Jingsamichty (Post 12775908)
Agreed. It genuinely is frightening to see so many people being persuaded that Johnson is a more trustworthy leader than Corbyn. Even people like John Major, Ken Clarke and Michael Heseltine don't want him to be PM, yet the idiots who read the Daily Mail can't get enough of him.
It is frightening how many people can't think for themselves and believe in what the gutter press tells them. Sorry, but Brits seem to suffer from a disease causing all these brain deaths in people. The little bit we see overseas on BBC world is enough to pick up Boris' lies. I know, all politicians lie but some are worse than others. His lies are an insult to the people. But remember the cartoon with the 2 foxes?

Former Lancastrian Dec 8th 2019 10:02 pm
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 12775770)
They are not ll as bad as each other, Trump and Johnson are dishonest and personally disreputable in a way that George W. Bush and Margaret Thatcher were not. It's dangerous to lump them all in together as that's the path to thinking Trump and Johnson tolerable as members of government, or dogsitters.
Some are just a little less bad than others then and it is very rare that a particular party has the full support of a country during their mandate(s). I am pretty sure that a person who runs for office starts off with the best intentions. They usually live in an area and understand the people they are representing. People living in Moss Side face different challenges to those living in Henley On Thames. I guess sometimes where you grow up and background may have an influence on which party you choose to vote for. I grew up in the North West which is predominantly Labour especially in the 70's and 80's and probably still is today. Neither my mum or dad was a Tory but I decided to join the Army after leaving school. In those days members of HM Forces couldn't vote. So after several years of being unable to vote I left the Army and joined the Police and at that time Maggie was PM. She was a PM who cared about HM Forces and the Police compared to others.
Perhaps I never had that rabid urge to vote for a particular party like some have and over time priorities change and now living in another country cant vote in the UK.
Are Canadian politicians any different to the UK ones?
So yes my views are probably unique to others but IMHO once in power don't expect the promises they made to be kept or fully implemented.

dbd33 Dec 9th 2019 12:03 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12775938)
once in power don't expect the promises they made to be kept or fully implemented.
There is a substantive difference between bending the truth in an election campaign, salesmanship, which is expected and for which the voters should make allowance, and outright blatant lies every day. "No border in the Irish Sea" is, for example, plainly not true. "NHS not on the table" is only true in the sense that no US organization is going to want to run the whole thing , a trade agreement with the US will eviscerate it. The only lie I can think of on this scale from past politicians is the one about Weapons of Mass Destruction (Bush and Blair).

Johnson and Trump say things one would not allow a five year old to get away with and they do so every day. Johnson is also disrespectful to the electorate in that, in response to most questions he covers his eyes and says "I can't hear you". I suggest it is a challenge to think of other politicians of this type. Berlusconi maybe.

Shard Dec 9th 2019 12:07 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 12776007)
There is a substantive difference between bending the truth in an election campaign, salesmanship, which is expected and for which the voters should make allowance, and outright blatant lies every day. "No border in the Irish Sea" is, for example, plainly not true. "NHS not on the table" is only true in the sense that no US organization is going to want to run the whole thing , a trade agreement with the US will eviscerate it. The only lie I can think of on this scale from past politicians is the one about Weapons of Mass Destruction (Bush and Blair).

Johnson and Trump say things one would not allow a five year old to get away with and they do so every day. Johnson is also disrespectful to the electorate in that, in response to most questions he covers his eyes and says "I can't hear you". I suggest it is a challenge to think of other politicians of this type. Berlusconi maybe.
Precise commentary.

It's clear that the electorarate, after three fractious years, desperately want a simple solution and Johnson is offering that in spades.

Danny B Dec 9th 2019 2:23 am
Re: PM Boris
 

dbd33 Dec 9th 2019 2:34 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by Danny B (Post 12776100)
I don't think he's stealing the phone, there's likely no intent to keep it, he's probably just hung over and confused. I wouldn't want him driving, or making decisions, but I don't see this as being malicious or criminal.

jimf Dec 9th 2019 2:52 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12776013)
Precise commentary.

It's clear that the electorarate, after three fractious years, desperately want a simple solution and Johnson is offering that in spades.
Whatever happens in the end, Brexit or no Brexit will be blamed for any problems by the losers for decades.

On the NHS I’d be interested to know to what extent the various Canadian provincial healthcare systems are under the control of US companies and whether that was a condition of NAFTA?

dbd33 Dec 9th 2019 3:01 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by jimf (Post 12776121)



On the NHS I’d be interested to know to what extent the various Canadian provincial healthcare systems are under the control of US companies and whether that was a condition of NAFTA?


Surely the answer is "not at all". Is there a reason to think otherwise?

dave_j Dec 9th 2019 3:15 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Three heart-wrenching days to go....... in case you'd forgotten.

Almost Canadian Dec 9th 2019 3:27 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12775938)
Some are just a little less bad than others then and it is very rare that a particular party has the full support of a country during their mandate(s). I am pretty sure that a person who runs for office starts off with the best intentions. They usually live in an area and understand the people they are representing. People living in Moss Side face different challenges to those living in Henley On Thames. I guess sometimes where you grow up and background may have an influence on which party you choose to vote for. I grew up in the North West which is predominantly Labour especially in the 70's and 80's and probably still is today. Neither my mum or dad was a Tory but I decided to join the Army after leaving school. In those days members of HM Forces couldn't vote. So after several years of being unable to vote I left the Army and joined the Police and at that time Maggie was PM. She was a PM who cared about HM Forces and the Police compared to others.
Perhaps I never had that rabid urge to vote for a particular party like some have and over time priorities change and now living in another country cant vote in the UK.
Are Canadian politicians any different to the UK ones?
So yes my views are probably unique to others but IMHO once in power don't expect the promises they made to be kept or fully implemented.
I'd like you to point me to the legislation in support of that, as I don't believe that that has ever been the case.


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