PM Boris
Sep 6th 2019, 3:56 pm
#301
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,340
Re: PM Boris
It’s very unclear whether the Uk can get it’s needs included in trade deals within the EU any better than as an independent country. Does the USA negotiate trade deals on behalf of Canada or Japan negotiate on behalf of South Korea so how do they manage?
Sep 6th 2019, 4:03 pm
#303
Listen to the Music
Joined: Mar 2013
Location: Fraser Valley BC
Posts: 4,728
Re: PM Boris
Back in the real world for once, an important move in this game of political chess has just passed the Lords, the 'No-Deal Bill' will receive Royal Assent and become Law.
Q. Why was this allowed to happen?
IF Boris had meant a 'do or die' attitude existed then surely he would have instructed his associates in the Lords to talk it out, but this was not done. Had the Lords talked the bill out then they would have been accused of abusing the system, etc etc, and if the UK had eventually left with a no-deal then there would have been this sickly 'smell' about the process.
But the bill was allowed to pass knowing that an extension would certainly follow.
The government would have 'gamed' this and would know what the consequences would be.
Their conclusion is that they have apparently decided to 'bet the farm' on the idea that a further extension carries an even nastier 'stench' with it and have adopted a post 31st October strategy where they'll start hammering away at the costs of continuing EU membership, etc etc, with the obvious villains to be decimated at the inevitable early election.
Not quite checkmate yet, but it's coming.....
Q. Why was this allowed to happen?
IF Boris had meant a 'do or die' attitude existed then surely he would have instructed his associates in the Lords to talk it out, but this was not done. Had the Lords talked the bill out then they would have been accused of abusing the system, etc etc, and if the UK had eventually left with a no-deal then there would have been this sickly 'smell' about the process.
But the bill was allowed to pass knowing that an extension would certainly follow.
The government would have 'gamed' this and would know what the consequences would be.
Their conclusion is that they have apparently decided to 'bet the farm' on the idea that a further extension carries an even nastier 'stench' with it and have adopted a post 31st October strategy where they'll start hammering away at the costs of continuing EU membership, etc etc, with the obvious villains to be decimated at the inevitable early election.
Not quite checkmate yet, but it's coming.....
Sep 6th 2019, 4:07 pm
#304
Yo
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: PM Boris
Yes 87% seems high, although probably 85% is routine non controversial stuff and the other 15 % what matters. UK and Germany do appear to be opposed most often.
It’s very unclear whether the Uk can get it’s needs included in trade deals within the EU any better than as an independent country. Does the USA negotiate trade deals on behalf of Canada or Japan negotiate on behalf of South Korea so how do they manage?
Why on earth would the USA negotiate on behalf of Canada? Or even more bizarrely Japan on behalf of SK? None of these countries are in a customs union?
Sep 6th 2019, 4:22 pm
#305
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,340
Re: PM Boris
If it's very unclear what are some of the products that UK has been disadvantaged in trading as a result of being in the EU?
Why on earth would the USA negotiate on behalf of Canada? Or even more bizarrely Japan on behalf of SK? None of these countries are in a customs union?
Why on earth would the USA negotiate on behalf of Canada? Or even more bizarrely Japan on behalf of SK? None of these countries are in a customs union?
Exactly so if Canada and South Korea don’t need a bigger power to give them more clout in trade negotiations why would the UK need the EU?
Sep 6th 2019, 5:02 pm
#307
Yo
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: PM Boris
EU places tariffs on imported shoes to protect the industry in Spain/Italy/France I think. So everyone in The EU pays a higher price for shoes to protect an industry which doesn’t exist in the UK at any scale. What UK industry receives similar special protection?
Exactly so if Canada and South Korea don’t need a bigger power to give them more clout in trade negotiations why would the UK need the EU?
Canada and Korea lack clout, there's no real reason the UK needs to diminish its global power as an independent. It can achieve its trade ambitions within the EU (as Germany does for example). The idea that the UK is held back by unfavourable EU trade regulation is UKIP/BP myth. If there were any substantive issues, wouldn't we be hearing about them from the CBI, IOD, UKTI etc?
Sep 6th 2019, 5:11 pm
#308
Oscar nominated
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 50,867
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Boris
We are on the verge of getting a deal
Sep 6th 2019, 5:13 pm
#309
Yo
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: PM Boris
Sep 6th 2019, 5:23 pm
#310
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,340
Re: PM Boris
Sep 6th 2019, 5:36 pm
#311
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,340
Re: PM Boris
How about cars? The UK produces many which it sells into Europe. EU tariffs protect against American and Asian exports. Whiskey? Lamb? No one is arguing that the EU isn't a protectionist racket (as Trump alleges) hence the desirability to be on the inside. Obviously there are categories which are more expensive within the EU, shoes are a well known one, as certain fruits. On the flip side we have a market of 500 million people in which to sell UK financial services and other intangibles. And that is not going to be replaced by a suddenly open US markets.
Canada and Korea lack clout, there's no real reason the UK needs to diminish its global power as an independent. It can achieve its trade ambitions within the EU (as Germany does for example). The idea that the UK is held back by unfavourable EU trade regulation is UKIP/BP myth. If there were any substantive issues, wouldn't we be hearing about them from the CBI, IOD, UKTI etc?
Canada and Korea lack clout, there's no real reason the UK needs to diminish its global power as an independent. It can achieve its trade ambitions within the EU (as Germany does for example). The idea that the UK is held back by unfavourable EU trade regulation is UKIP/BP myth. If there were any substantive issues, wouldn't we be hearing about them from the CBI, IOD, UKTI etc?
Sep 6th 2019, 10:09 pm
#312
Oscar nominated
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 50,867
Re: PM Boris
Don't let him near a China Shop.
Better keep the bull out too.
Sep 7th 2019, 1:05 am
#313
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: South of Calgary
Posts: 13,375
Sep 7th 2019, 6:19 am
#314
Listen to the Music
Joined: Mar 2013
Location: Fraser Valley BC
Posts: 4,728
Re: PM Boris
Roderick James Nugent Stewart OBE FRSL FRSGS MP is one of those Eton and Balliol educated diplomats who think that they understand how the rest of those condemned be classed among the average UK citizenry carve out a living.
No doubt he's intelligent, but when he makes a stand against no-deal he does it from the standpoint of one who doesn't understand why ordinary people think the way they do.
And yet he's sufficiently arrogant to insist that his view of the UK should meld with other like minded MPs to override the wishes of the majority lawfully expressed in a lawfully constituted referendum.
Eton and Balliol will be proud of him.
No doubt he's intelligent, but when he makes a stand against no-deal he does it from the standpoint of one who doesn't understand why ordinary people think the way they do.
And yet he's sufficiently arrogant to insist that his view of the UK should meld with other like minded MPs to override the wishes of the majority lawfully expressed in a lawfully constituted referendum.
Eton and Balliol will be proud of him.
Sep 7th 2019, 7:33 am
#315
Yo
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: PM Boris
Roderick James Nugent Stewart OBE FRSL FRSGS MP is one of those Eton and Balliol educated diplomats who think that they understand how the rest of those condemned be classed among the average UK citizenry carve out a living.
No doubt he's intelligent, but when he makes a stand against no-deal he does it from the standpoint of one who doesn't understand why ordinary people think the way they do.
And yet he's sufficiently arrogant to insist that his view of the UK should meld with other like minded MPs to override the wishes of the majority lawfully expressed in a lawfully constituted referendum.
Eton and Balliol will be proud of him.
No doubt he's intelligent, but when he makes a stand against no-deal he does it from the standpoint of one who doesn't understand why ordinary people think the way they do.
And yet he's sufficiently arrogant to insist that his view of the UK should meld with other like minded MPs to override the wishes of the majority lawfully expressed in a lawfully constituted referendum.
Eton and Balliol will be proud of him.