Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

On Saturday evening my 17 year old son was viciously attacked by a Rottweiler. I am so proud of him as he managed to remain calm and remove himself from what could have been a very nasty situation for him. We spent the night at the emergency and he had six stitches and a huge dose of antibiotics!!! He's in a lot of pain but smiling.

You get the people who are on the dogs side saying that it's the owners fault and they shouldn't be banned and on the other side those who call for a ban on any of of the breeds who have the reputation of being dangerous.

Until Saturday night my opinion was that if we can't control the people who own them then our only option is to ban them. Since that scary night I would sign any petition that might help ban all dangerous breeds and severely punish anybody who owns one.
I make these comments having worked in animal control so this isn't just a total guessing game.

Quebec I have read is banning them and obviously pit bulls have been banned in Ontario since 2005.

I was wondering what other people think of these dogs and the bans?

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My wife had one, fortunately it was some time before I came on the scene, as it were. The whole family loved it.

Whenever she saw one on TV - and this still goes for the others too (stepdaughter especially) - the reaction is "awww...Ryan!" His name. :nod:

Until I knew of this this it seemed to me that a very common reason to have these dogs was to help intimidate, because their owners seemed a certain type...albeit something reinforced by media rather than significant personal experience.

Familiar with the argument about owners not caring properly being to blame, when I read of the Quebec ban (or was it Montreal?) I thought why not an extra category of dog licence just as you only get an HGV licence when you've demonstrated the ability to drive an HGV.

And that, in turn, makes me think it's a similar situation for guns.

But then it was always my wife's favourite kind of dog. Personally I don't even know which is a Pit bull and which is a Rottweiler, they just seem ugly brutes to me. :unsure:

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I'm sorry to hear your son was attacked... What happened? where was he etc?

I'm a huge dog lover - have had dogs for about 15 years now. I've had a retriever/spaniel mix and a lab.

I am on the fence about these types of dogs. I'm terrified of pit bulls here. I was walking my dog not long after I got here and she was on her lead and a pit bull came running across the field at us. (Wasn't off lease park I'd never actually seen one except in photos and I have to admit I was frozen in fear. The head and the jaw on that thing... unreal) I've never been that scared of a dog and I've never met one so powerful. Owner was like "oh he's friendly" and I just stood there... thinking F Word he'd better be or we've both had it. I had visions of him annihilating my lab who was still a puppy really - daft as a brush. I can remember my blood running cold and just being so grateful at the time that I didn't have my son with me.

I think in the wrong hands pit bulls etc are weapons really. I can't stand half the videos on FB about babies and pitbulls and how they are ok with the baby. Anyone that knows anything about dogs can see it's not.... it's not ok - it's showing signs of distress that owners who don't know a lot about dogs can't read.

I dunno - in pink la la land (the world I'd like to live in) I'd like all dog owners to watch intense videos about outward signs of stress and how to handle powerful breeds.

Like I said I love dogs but you couldn't pay me enough to own a pitbull or a rottie. Its not always the dogs fault as kids torment dogs (unknowingly a lot of the time) but the problem with a dog like that in my eyes is once it goes for a child/adult it doesn't let go!

I do think dogs are a reflection of their owners most of the time. Stressed houses = stressed dogs. Saying that tho my lab didn't find her brain until she was 6.... so some of the behaviour is innate too (IMHO)

I hope your son recovers fast and it doesn't make him terrified of all dogs.

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I am sorry to hear about your son...thank goodness it could have been much, much worse.

I see many pit bull type dogs and several mastiffs here in Toronto. Often they are dragging along their owner...who appears to weigh about 100lbs soaking wet. IMO most of the owners would not be able to hold onto the lead if the dog was to bolt.

A couple of months ago we were on our way to collect beer from the Amsterdam Restaurant shop. As we approached we noticed a homeless youth with two dogs off leash...one a pit bull type nearby...he was clearly off his head. We quickly entered the shop...a minute later he tried to enter. The cashier rushed to the door and locked the door...too late as the dog had already got in. We found ourselves locked in the tiny store with the pit bull...it's owner ranting outside. A security guy and the chef came out to try to calm the guy down. In the meantime the cashier had opened the door so the dog could get out. Unfortunately it jumped at the chef and bit him.

The guy walked away with the dogs before the cops arrived. Later we saw him kicking his dogs. If the cops caught him the dogs would be put down...unfortunately the same fate wouldn't apply to him.

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Sadly the dogs wouldn't be put down. Only a judge can rule for a dog to be put down. I spent enough time working for animal control to have seen some cray stuff.
People who pass their pit bull for a boxer X or who are blind to what their dog is capable of.

Anybody who's interested should google DOLA which is the legislation around dog ownership.

I had some sympathy for these dogs/owners but no more...

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We were dog sitting. I was unsure from the start but hubby said they were fine. They were only due to be with us for 48hrs but left early due to the situation.
My son was so brave and calm. Although I do believe when he called for my help that he shouted "they're gonna kill me"!

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I always thought they were ugly but that's not their fault. I kept picturing them with red eyes like in the horror movies.
Rottweilers are the larger black ones. They don't get as much bad press as pitties but they're obviously not far behind.

My Newf slept outside my sons room until he got up on Sunday morning. She knew something terribly wrong had happened to him and wanted to protect him.
At the time it happened the Newf and the Saint were in a separate part of the house. I think if they had all been together we probably wouldn't have our dogs anymore.

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I was thinking it from the owner's view though. The way my wife reacted to one on TV or whatever and stepdaughter still does, you'd think they were as cute as a kitten.

I dunno, I suppose they developed a strong attachment but why get one in the first place? :unsure:

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They are perfectly legal in BC and I have seen many of them. Personally, if I am out walking my dog (French Bulldog) and I see a pitbull with their ears cropped, I walk on the other side of the road as they look mean as fack.

However, I have bumped into lots of friendly dogs with ears intact and am shocked when the owner tells me it is a 'pure pit' they look so different and not as mean.

This is a good example of what can be done with good training.

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We had a Doberman when we lived in the UK. Someone tried to break into the house whilst I was in bed. It was a new house and non of the houses nearby we near occupation. My husband was working overseas...he travelled overseas often. We had three small dogs that slept in the kitchen...their barking woke me but I was too scared to go downstairs. I will always remember the policeman's words...'looks like you owe your dogs a favour love'.

My husband then insisted we get a guard dog. I went to see my vet for advice and researched the breeds thoroughly before making a decision.

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I'm so sorry that your son was injured and hope he recovers quickly.

I've known several rottie's (and their owners) and in the right family, with the right training, they are pussycats. Honestly, the last one I was around was sitting on my lap snuggling! My nephew also had a rottie who was the softest most loving dog you have ever met.

However, with the wrong family - like any dog - they can be nasty pieces of work... but I do think a lot of dogs get a bad rap just because of they way they are brought up.

Dog Breeds That Have Attacked the Most People | PetBreeds

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I lived in a fairly ghastly bit of Stratford East, in London, and had a Springer Spaniel. "We" the collective dog owners in the neighborhood got up early and walked our dogs before 7 am in East Ham Park, as it was by 10 am or so that the unemployed brought their killing machines to be exercised. There is absolutely nothing wrong with dogs and everything wrong with their owners, who go on to move amongst us and vote! I don't think there are nasty dogs, there are horrible disgusting owners. I have baby pictures of me romping on the floor with a bull mastif and my head is practically between it's jaws! This was a family dog, that nobody had a seconds thought about.

Personally, I would never leave a small child unattended with an animal, even our own family pet, it's asking for trouble.

I rather like Rottweillers, I wouldn't want to own one, but I know three here who are nice animals...I rather prefer animals to their owners.

I am so sorry that this has happened to your son, please don't let it define his relationship to dogs. I was bitten on the face badly by our family Labrador retriever when I was small and it took me a couple of decades to get over it. She was a gentle dog, and I was little, so I probably did something she didn't like....that would never happen with my kid!

Very best regards:thumbup:

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I'm sorry to hear such a horrible story.

I wonder about people who keep fierce dogs. Our neighbor in Guelph had a mastiff that had been a guard dog for a junkyard in Poland, he would take it to the park and all the other dog owners would sweep up their pets and scurry away. The rest of the time the dog had a miserable life on a chain snarling at everyone. That was a case of someone who had selected a dog to frighten people, and it did frighten people. I imagine most pit bulls are chosen for that purpose so, while I wouldn't ban them, I wouldn't want anything to do with someone who kept one either.

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That's why because you can't ban the owners you have to ban the dogs.

My son is fine. Very "positive" about the situation although I don't think he will ever own a Rottweiler! He's 17! All the nurses have been telling him how good it's going to be to tell the girls he wrestled and won against a Rottweiler!!

As far as I'm concerned, I dislike those types of breeds even more. I know any dog can bite but I look at my Newf and my Saint and love them a little bit more!

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I hope your son recovers quickly. I think it's the owners, not the dog. I have 2 supposedly vicious dogs (in the States). I do think for some breeds you should have to go through screening/training before being allowed to have one. My vet once said, not many dogs scare me but I'm wary of weiner dogs.

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A neighbour had a Rottweiler years ago ........... he brought it home as a puppy when his 3rd child was still crawling, not yet learned to walk. He also had 2 cats

We all though "what the hxxx?!!"

That dog was the most beautifully trained dog you could imagine ....... the kids (and there was eventually a 4th child) could do anything with him. The cats ruled him ......... he was scared to death of their claws.

He guarded 3 houses ............. if he was out in his yard and anyone came on to either of the next door properties, he would bark like mad. We had to "introduce" visitors to him if we wanted to sit with them on our sundeck, or he would bark until we did.

His owner had him trained to finger moves, and often did not have him on the leash, he never ran.

He did get out of his yard occasionally, other people would be scared of him ....... but OH or I would go up to him, point homeward and say "Home, Raider", and off he would go.

I admit that I would NOT put one toe on his property if none of the family were there ......... I would just guide him home, then stand on the sidewalk and point him into his garden. I know he could well have attacked me if I had followed him, and in my eyes he would have been protecting his property.

If we were talking to his owner, Raider would come to me and let me pet him, and then gradually lean against my leg ................ until I almost fell over!

He taught me that a good owner can have a well-behaved dog.

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I glad your son is ok, thankfully it wasn't worse but I'm sure bad enough. You all must be be pretty shaken up.

Unfortunately, any dog is capable of doing what happened, irrespective of the breed, large or small, some as have been discussed are more likely to be aggressive but even seemingly gentle dogs such as golden retrievers, labradoodles and any kind of Heinz 57 can flip for no noticeable reason, as has been said, sometimes due to the contacting person being oblivious to signs that the dog was putting out, often warning signs such as aggression or fright etc. There are occasions when these signs aren't put out but these are I think rare.

We aren't sure of the circumstances in this case, a 17 year old boy is unlikely to set off the attack. The problem was, the dogs weren't known to you and so reading the signs under these circumstances was probably nigh impossible.

Prior to Canada, Stinky went for hydrotherapy for his hips since he was a pup. The pool was at a house owned by a Rottweiler and Staffie shower and breeder. She asked before we left if I could photograph her dogs. She had at that time 14 Rotties and 4 Staffies and the control that she had over all of these dogs as she brought them out to photograph was impeccable.

Undoubtedly there are more aggressive breeds, there are breeds with immensely powerful jaws (Mastiff and Rottweiler easily come out on top here- although the Hyena and Wolf have twice the bite strength of both of these breeds!) Someone on her Facebook page, a friend takes amazing photos of her "fabulous five" Rotties perfectly posed like professionals. Cute but like any dog potentially dangerous.

I 100% agree with the comment re Pit Bulls and little kids on Facebook. Friends of mine bought one whilst she was pregnant...that I think was foolish. When our kids were young, I would never leave Stinky and his predecessors alone with the kids at any time however much I trusted them.

It is often the owners, using dogs as perverse status symbols, the dangerous dogs act in the UK was I feel a good plan- countrywide. Here in Canada, Provinces are different in their policies. Im not sure banning breeds is the answer, it might be but where do you draw the line?- Pitbulls, Mastiffs, Rotties, Staffies, GDSs, Akitas, Boxers, Huskies..the list goes on.

I personally dont think that Pit Bulls should be licensed but I come from a country which has banned them long ago. It is also about control- a Labrador can cause savage damage if out of control. Im not sure what can be learnt from this horrible event that occurred- it was a couple of Rottweilers but could have been many other breeds.I hope as has been said that your son and indeed yourselves will move on, and continue to hopefully get back the love for dogs which you seem to have had prior to this traumatic experience. I strongly believe that the essence of control and behaviour lies within the hands of the owners.

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A few weeks ago I went to the drug store. When I arrived I noticed a small terrier mix tied up outside waiting for his owner to come out. Being a dog lover I approached the dog with my hand extended palm up, to say hi to him. Well I guess he didn't appreciate that because he snapped at me and got me good on the soft flesh at the bottom of my thumb. Lots of pain and blood ensued. It wasn't the dog's fault-all mine. He obviously felt threatened. I learned a lesson though about petting strange dogs without owner's presence and permission, although once in 70+ years ain't bad.

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I think this is too kind to the dogs.

I have a greyhound, a breed of dog that eats cats, and we have two cats. One cat will bat the greyhound on the nose to wake her up and then demand petting, the greyhound will then nuzzle him. So, that greyhound is compatible with those cats and we have lovely facebook compliant pictures of them snuggling. Would I let the unleashed greyhound be in the same garden as a strange cat? No. As one of those cats? No. Greyhounds eat cats and being ok with specific ones indoors doesn't alter the nature of the greyhound.

Similarly, having a territorial dog such as a Mastiff or Rottweiler that's compatible with specific children indoors doesn't make it acceptable to expose strangers, children or adults, to that animal. If you have a guard dog type of animal, keep it for guarding, don't take it out to places where passers-by have to be expected to "read the signs" that the dog is going to bite them. Don't take it away from it's territory and dump it on innocent dog sitters.

And, on guarding, I would think a dog barking fiercely is the deterrent, not the likelihood of the dog biting; for that purpose even a friendly retriever poodle mix meets the need.

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

I'd never heard that before but I suppose it's only logical a North American would call a sausage dog by that name.

http://s7.orientaltrading.com/is/ima...stume~mc0917md

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Funny isn't it? I grew up with wiener dogs so have no worries about them. Our fears are very much based on experience.

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One more who's sorry, but relieved, at this tale of your son. Kudos to him for handling it so well.

I'm a dog-lover but no fan of Rottweilers and can anecdotally explain why. Our best-friend German neighbours (in, err, Germany) would always invite me to stay in their house when I used to go back to have collaborative research time with my former colleagues. Unfortunately after a few years they acquired a Rottweiler bitch. The dog was fine with the family but nervous about having a stranger in the house (i.e. me) overnight.

Again, unfortunately, their old German village house, like most older German houses didn't have en suite loos in the bedrooms and this bloody dog would growl and bark when I had to go (and you know the size of a german Bierstein).

After a couple of years of this I started to make excuses and stay elsewhere (I think they understood why).

OK, so far, all my problem, but two years later the animal attacked the husband of the family for no obvious reason and was subsequently put down.

Just saying.

I'll stick to Border Collies.

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Thank you everybody for your kind words. He's on the mend and very positive. I still can't get over how well he dealt with the situation. He didn't try to rip his arm out of the dogs mouth but just wrestled the dog to the floor and pinned it to the ground. I think what will take a long time for me to get over is the tone of his voice when he shouted for help saying "They're going to kill me". Somehow he managed to get off the dog and out of the room before I got there. He was so much calmer than me then, I couldn't even figure out how to call 911!!

I do agree that the owners are responsible for the most part for the behaviour of these breeds and if in the wrong hands these dogs are time bombs.
However, if all dogs are equal and that it's how the owners treat them / train them why don't the police use golden retrievers or wieners dogs? In my opinion Simply because rottweilers, pit bulls and various others have it in them to be vicious and putting them in the wrong hands makes them go from bad to worse not from good to bad.

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Thank you for that Novo. Exactly as I said above. Time bombs!

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When we lived in England, we knew the woman whose dogs were used in the Omen films. She was horrified when Rotties were then called "Devil dogs" in the 1990s following a series of bites that were reported in the media.

There are so many factors that affect whether a particular dog will turn "nasty" that I do not believe it is helpful to simply label a breed of dog as bad. An intact dog of any breed is likely to be far more aggressive that a castrated dog of the same breed all other things being equal.

When in England, my wife had Rotties and we brought them to Calgary with us. They have since passed away.

We now have an Akita and 3 GSDs. All of them are well trained and we have no issue with taking them to off leash parks. While at such parks we meet owners with smaller dogs that wish to do nothing but pick fights with larger dogs and, when the larger dog retaliates, all of a sudden it is the larger dog's fault.

We also meet larger dogs that are not under the control of their owners.

Suffice to say, a well trained dog that is under the care of a sensible owner, is very unlikely to cause anything like the issues that a poorly trained dog that is under the care of "tattooed ****-wit" (to paragraph Mr. Connelly) that has the dog simply to attempt to intimidate others.

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I think there are many factors that make the dog. Breeding, training, handler, spay/neuter vs intact and situation the animal is in.
From my recent experience and my past animal control experience (to be fair also my upbringing) I will never trust those breeds ever again. I don't believe however that a ban is the way to go. The CKC has a Canine Good Neighbour program. I think it should be mandatory for dogs to get their CGN certificate. That might help. Banning them just gets vets to record them as American Bulldogs, boxer X etc... In Ontario however the dog only ""has to display the physical characteristics of a pit bull" for the dog to be deemed pit bull and therefore banned.

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I'm afraid whenever those dogs come to mind all I can see now is the Onen dogs with their red eyes! Sorry

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I am fed up with unleashed dogs running up to my little dog when we are out walking. A French Bulldog bit her a couple of months ago and she is now frightened of dogs running up to her while we are walking. There are signs all over saying dogs must be leashed but irresponsible owners take no notice.

When we are away she goes into kennels. They have large playrooms where the dogs can run around all day under supervision. She loves running/playing and jumping in the pool with the large dogs. Go figure. :unsure:

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Does it really surprise you that your leashed dog feels more threatened when an unleashed dog comes to her than she does when she, too, is unleashed?

Clearly, dogs should not be unleashed accept in areas where unleashed dogs are permitted, if we accept that such bylaws are necessary.

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Speaking from an animal control perspective. I don't like dog parks. Seen some bad injuries happen in them. Including humans that put their arms between dogs to separate them...

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I once read a comment from a police officer familiar with break-ins and burglaries. He said he'd never seen a house broken into where a dog was present, regardless of the size of the beast. Personally I wouldn't hang my security hat on that.

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Of course not...but does surprise me that my 4lbs dog prefers to run around and play with a dozen or so very large 70/100lbs dogs...than smaller dogs.

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Well if you had the choice would you break in to a house with or without a dog?
I always joke that my two dogs, Newfie and Saint would help them carry our stuff out of the house but I do wonder what they would really do.

They are refusing to drink out of the water bowl the Rottweiler drank out of! Bizarre! They think about these things more than we give them credit!

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I like dog parks though I recognize the health risk, through disease, entailed. The one in Buffalo NY is lovely; beside the lake, a big area, large and small dog pens. There's certainly a concern though that, if two rocket dogs zoom off to a far corner and then start fighting, there's very little one can do about it. I think you have to look at the owners before deciding if this is a good day to run the dog or not.

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The one time I took my dog to a dog park here in Toronto she got kennel cough. Never again.

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It's too cold in Buffalo for germs to live.

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Or just the recording of one. :sneaky:

I was looking for the "Caution, I live here" dog sign but I found this instead.

https://www.personalised-pet-product...ds-120x120.jpg

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OMG! Nikki, this is awful. How is he today?

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My friend has a pit/lab mix and an amstaff/pit mix and she adores them. However they do have leash aggression and they have gone at it together for no apparent reason once now.
I have a lab husky mix whos very nervous (hes a rescue) and so I do not allow him to be surrounded by small kids. If they come to the house I remove him. I don't think any dog is 100% reliable to never bite.


I would hate to have to go through this, kudos to him for his calm behaviour.

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He's been great. Remained very calm and doesn't seem to be traumatized. I can't get over how instinctively he did the right thing. So proud of him.

I agree about keeping nervous dogs away from small kids. Your dogs are lovely and never worried me. My instinct was not to look after these dogs but son and husband said it would be fine. They've agreed to listen to me now!!