Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

I sometimes leave this playing :lol:

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

A disturbing post.
I have two small grandchildren, 4 and 6. Kids behave stupidly at the best of times but they don't bite. Even so I try to keep an eye on them to make sure that they keep themselves and others safe.
I despair and am terrified of dogs whose owners act to put others at risk and I wonder whether they understand the stress they put me to when unleashed dogs are in the same space as my small children.
I know there will be owners out there who will announce that their pet is completely safe and wouldn't hurt a fly but I don't know that. An excitable dog off the leash, friendly though he might be, turns my grey hair white and turns what should be a carefree moment into a torment.
My daughter has a staffordshire terrier. I have taken it for many walks including the local park. It has never been off the leash.

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

When I lived in England I rarely walked my dog on leash. She would wander along sniffing around and saying hello to people.
When I moved to Canada I was shocked at how it was expected that my dog should be on leash at all times.
But then I started working for animal control and it all made sense. Now I'm a fervent supporter of the requirement for a dog to be leashed!! I have seen and heard many bad stories and spoken to many terrified people and I now realize that it's selfish to walk your dog off leash no matter how "nice" you say your dog is.

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

There are leash laws in Red Deer, but not RD County as far as we can tell. I walk my pair on leash, too worried they would go, they are generally really good but once in a while they will give me a look í ½í¸’and take off, any recall they usually have flies out the window, however two of out three neighbour's let their dogs roam free. Next door has a mastiff great Dane cross, who took a dislike to Henry on day one, he has also cornered Mr P in our yard. Luckily now he runs home when he sees us walking. The owners have little control over him at times.

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I don't entirely agree with that statement. One could say you are in a position of knowledge, yes, one could also say that you are very experienced in bad dogs, dogs which are causing problems to the degree that Animal Control are called. That I fear is perhaps giving you a somewhat slanted view on things. I did the same as you, I wandered down the lanes with the assortment of dogs with no leads, no issues- we lived in rural areas. Here, I do walk Stinky on a leash as it is in a Provincial Park and we have to. Also, he might wander off piste and get bitten by a rattlesnake which at the minimum would cost us a fortune. He had however been to training after he came here and I have very good control of him. I feel that I am a responsible dog owner, I pick up after him and respect the other park users, including wildlife.

There are dogs, which you won't have encountered as an Animal Control Officer, owned by responsible dog owners who have control such as myself. Of course it bugs me when I see irresponsible owners (note I don't blame the dog per se) letting their dogs run free out of control. The 5 Rotties I described are amazingly well controlled and are clearly off lead. When away from the fields and woods in town they are.

As for answers, I don't have any easy ones. I don't think banning is easy, all dogs are dangerous, obviously some more than others. I think that Pit bulls have a perhaps well deserved aura of menace with expats here as they have been banned for eons. You could argue ban the dogs from a list similar to the Dangerous Dogs Act, that would make sense. But then you have the Mastiffs, Rotties, Staffies, English Bull Terrier, Malamutes, GSDs, Malinoires, Akitas, Huskies , and many more ... again, I ask , would you ban them all?

Dog owners are key to this, they I would agree have a more laissez faire in Canada which increases risks but a fair proportion of attacks are especially in the owners or neighbours homes/ gardens when leashes are not used. I personally would agree to a similar legislation to the Dangerous Dogs act in the UK but wouldn't support inclusion of any of the breeds above. (Pit Bulls excepted). I would also not support your call for compulsory leashes. Then would there be a call to muzzle all dogs?

I absolutely support responsible dog ownership, responsible dog breeding, both are key to the safer public. If breeders were reputable, they would very closely vet the prospective owners, just like my Rottie lady does like they are her babies. Shut down the puppy farms, thereby stopping the churning out of defective and dubiously bred and likely more unpredictable dogs.

As I say I walk with Stinky on a leash but he is trained and controlled off it (not just because he is old and knackered:lol:)- there are responsible other dog owners who do likewise.
There are no rights or wrongs, I just thought that I would give a further dollop of my thoughts:cool:

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

Ultimately there are bylaws in place to ensure that owners are responsible.
I served many a fine on people for allowing their dogs to run at large. They didn't like it and I was called all sorts of names at times but it is what it is.
I used to make the mistake of saying to people " don't worry she's friendly" but actually now I feel that it's not fair for a stranger to have to trust that what I am saying is true.
In that respect I do miss my carefree days in the uk.

We had many owners who just like you would say "my dog doesn't leave my side"...until the dog does leave the owners side, because the temptation was suddenly too much.

As far as the puppy mills are concerned, it's not easy. You get corrupt officers which don't help. This is the main reason towns impose a limit on the number of dogs a resident can own before needing a kennel license. It doesn't completely solve the problem but does deter many people.

Muzzling dogs is not necessary unless they gave a history. If the owner has the dog under control and on leash the muzzle is unnecessary.

Out of interest, when you moved to your current location did you take the time to read your towns animal bylaws?

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

I'm interested in your perception of freedom and carefree days in the UK, did you feel that the risks were not there? Or is it that your view changed after you were involved in Animal control?

I do not inflict my dogs on anyone quoting what you suggest, I never have- what irks me a little is your inference that everyone is guilty of such behaviour, this is simply not true. Of course I have seen it and heard that said many a time and it bugs me too
I sense your disbelief of my suggestion that dogs can be successfully obedient and under control. All I can do is quote from my own fairly extensive experience with dogs which I have had throughout all my life.

Proper legislation needs to exist, not just limiting the numbers- that helps but as with guns, the dangerous ones are let out into the public domain illegally.
Yes, I am absolutely up to speed with the local bylaws- moving Stinky over was a large commitment which we approached correctly and properly.
You haven't yourself responded to my query about potential banning of particular breeds, what are your thoughts on this, I would be interested to know.

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Yes any dog can bite.Thats the point really.I was taking care of my D's tiny little mongrel mix last week.It went for my arm(only a bruise thank goodness) because I made the mistake of (a) feeding it near my own golden retriever and (b) putting a bowl of water down beside it 'after' I had put down it's bowl of meat. It obviously thought I (or my golden') was going to take it's food away. Stupid on my part.
I am so sorry about your son. I hate it when a child or young person is hurt and then put off dogs for life.It is the fault of the human but that doesn't make it any better.Like getting hold of guns ,people shouldn't be allowed to get hold of dangerous breeds without a licence and knowing what they are doing.and have a darn good reason for having them in the first place.(is there one?) A neighbour of mine in the UK had a Rottweiler she used as a babysitter for her very young daughter.Her weird choice.However the dog accompanied the daughter when she came over to our garden to play (in the days kids were free to wander) NOT a great choice and I actually had to tell her about it? durh. She obviously hadn't a clue.The dog would bare it's teeth at anyone or thing that came near it's child. We were lucky..

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You speak of another world. Around us just about every property has one or more dogs. I don't know if any of these dogs have ever been on a leash, it's certainly not routine. There are no fences, at least not dog restraining fences, the various dogs could form a crocodile and march into town if so inclined. Arriving at the stables of an evening we're greeted by three loose dogs, one of which has fits and sometimes needs shifting out of the way.

The only dog I know of locally that's subject to any sort of constraint lives in a cage in someone's garden. Whether it's -30 or +30 the dog runs madly up and down like a zoo inmate in an documentary on animal cruelty.

Our greyhound came with a muzzle, I would not be surprised if that's the only muzzle in private hands in the county.

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

All dogs have the potential to turn violent at a moment's notice given the right (or wrong) stimulus. The video of the 4 year-old with the pit-bulls made me shudder!

We have a 7-year-old 135lb Siberian Husky who has never attacked anyone but I still would never leave him alone with a child. He is prone to seizures which are controlled with medication but the first time was terrifying. When he comes round after a seizure, he is like a frightened, cornered wolf.

Once, at a dog park, a 6-year old girl took a liking to him and was hugging him around the neck. While he didn't react with any kind of aggression, I had to stop her just for my own sanity.

On another occasion, we were broken down on the interstate and I had taken him out for a pee (on leash) when a State Trooper pulled up. As he approached, the dog made a move toward him (to say hello) and the cop went for his gun :eek: Fully understandable. He backed down after I assured him he was friendly AND he saw he was on a short leash.

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

There is a large, heavy Rottweiler in our building...it is always leashed. It seems quite placid but looks fearsome. People are scared of the dog...especially when it walks into an elevator when other dogs are there. Recently I've noticed the owner has the dog muzzled. I heard he did this because of comments made by people when he is walking the dog.

Personally I think all large dogs should be muzzled when out. I realise little dogs can be aggressive too but let's face it...the damage my little Pom could do is nothing compared to a Rottie, Doberman, GSD, Pit Bull etc. I have nothing against large dogs...Dobermans are my dog of choice but unpractical for our lifestyle now.

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

As mentioned previously I didn't even think of the effect my dog being off leash might have had on people who are nervous around dogs. My perception I think changed when I moved to Canada but before I worked in animal control.
I admire people who believe they have 100% control of their dog. The problem being that rules have to be the same for everybody and therefore to avoid issues all dogs should be leashed. Out of interest does your dog ever get spooked by anything?

As far as a ban is concerned, I'm not sure how much good they do to be honest. Vets register pits as boxer X or American bulldog here in Ontario which defeats the whole point of the ban. Then a lot of animal control people are of course animal lovers so turn a blind eye anyway when they see a well behaved pit bull.
Personally? Yes I'd ban the lot of them!

I'm watching with interest what is happening in Quebec!

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

I don't go along with the idea that bans or restrictions (whatever the subject) are not worth it because a number of people can disregard them or find ways around them.

If some people are not doing something that they shouldn't that's better than a free-for-all where everyone can do it.

Better to have most people driving within speed limits than everyone speeding.

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

Totally agree. Any dog if cornered can react with a bite. Dogs generally give off warning signs before they bite but quite often humans don't read these signs. That video of the 4 year old feeding the Rotties made me nervous. If they all decided to have a go she wouldn't stand a chance.

I have a beautiful lab. She's playful and still acts like a pup sometimes around other dogs. She has been nipped several times by other dogs. I met a woman a while ago and she said "oh my dog's friendly. Can they say hello?" everything in her dogs stance told me it wasn't the case and sure enough her dog had a go at mine (didn't reach as mine can skip out the way pretty good)

My lab is a gorgeous dog around children - she always was even as a pup but was a bit excitable but now she's great. The other day we were walking her as a family and a dog came flying down from a deck barking and snarling. She went crazy. She pulled on the lead and barked and snarled right back. She could sense I'd gotten the fright of my life. So yes I believe any dog can react. The only other time she's ever barked was when my son was ahead of me on a walk and another dog got inbetween her and him.

Any dog can react when scared/threatened or they believe their human is at risk. People who say their dogs would never do anything wrong I believe are a bit naive.

People's ignorance around dogs drive me mad sometimes. :eek:

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

On another occasion, at a dog park, there was another, smaller, female husky. Ours was trying to be the alpha until she objected and turned on him, biting his ear.

He quickly turned into the omega, running across the park back to us, crying like a baby.

It was really quite comical.

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

But to use your analogy of speeding when vets list these dogs as boxers or whatever it's like saying to the police office that you have the authority to state that his speed gun is not calibrated correctly and that he should therefore let you off!

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

Except that the speedster, unlike the vet, doesn't have that input - unless there's some evidence to back it up.:lol: But my point is really that not all would even if they could....that a vet may enable the getting around the problem doesn't necessarily mean that all of them will.

Not all doctors give a med certificate willy-nilly ;)

But to stick with vets, they are risking their licence if they falsify a dog breed. I just googled and there are a number of articles about such matters.

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

LOL. Our last dog (male) was a bit aggressive with other dogs and he had a real go at a police dog one day who was twice his size. Luckily the other one was on a lease and with his handler. He'd have eaten mine for breakfast. :eek:

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

What I've read here is a catalogue of descriptions of unpredictability by dogs and, if anything could have calmed me down when in the presence of unleashed dogs, this hasn't been it.

I don't ask owners not to exercise their animals, what I do ask is that they behave responsibly and spare a thought for others who may not be as confident about their pet's behaviour as they are.

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

If we all just stick to the rules it'll be ok! 😊

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

Just like your computer always behaves very well and then it doesn't last night, hanging, never coming back and then telling you it's not genuine even though it is :eek:

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

I hate them gooey dogs, they rub your legs and you're all slimy.

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

:lol:

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

So Stinks and I were out for a toddle in the Provincial Park next door. There was a young woman with what looked like a young pit bull- rightly it was leashed (as was Stinky as per regs;)) and I took him off the path so she could get by. She warned me that the dog "wasn't good with other dogs" as it snarled and barked at his nibs who was sat quietly in the shade having just had a roll in the dirt.

She was struggling to pull it back and keep control despite the leash. It was only a puppy, probably Staffie sized. It does always puzzle me why people buy this breed- the owner looked pleasant enough, she wasn't a rough-arse. She didn't look as if she was having any fun on her walk, I saw her back by the cars later, struggling.
When it becomes adult, she will not be able to control it. She couldn't take it to our local pet beach to cool off as it would go psycho. Why buy a pit bull? They are frequently aggressive even in seemingly good hands.:unsure:

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There is a petite woman who walks an enormous black dog around here. Whatever the weather she is usually wearing a tiny bikini top and a very, very short tight skirt...high platform shoes with the highest stilettos I have ever seen. (Looks like a hooker :D) The dog literally drags her along. Gawd knows what would happen if the dog decided to run after something.

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Some people are stupid. We have an issue with a young teenager who walks an aggressive big dog round here. I see her coming and it has her all over the place. I have to change direction when I see her as her dog drags her over to mine... no control at all. Aside from that annoyance - where in God's name are the parents??? :eek:

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Research suggests Labs bit the most people but GSDs bit the most Posties. Eliminate the dogs legislated under the Dangerous Dogs act and you will be left with the commonest breed causing the most bites, perhaps not surprising. GSDs have a tendency to "nip, grab and drag"as demonstrated in Siouxie's article posted , hence they are great for police work- and a Postie must be very tempting for the poor pups.. Not that I'm advocating canine violence and general naughtiness :unsure:

Labrador dogs responsible for the most bite injury claims | UK | News | Daily Express

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

Well, yes, but there are many more of them so that's not a helpful statistic.

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That's kind of what I was inferring......

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I can't recall which article I saw but the dogs in question were responsible for a phenomenally high figure of attacks compared to others.

On the one hand there were likely fewer of them, making it even more remarkable but on the other hand, if that's what the owners want,then it may be...er policy?.....:(

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I'm not sure what you are trying to say here Bristol, I'm probably being thick..
The article that Siouxie indicated showed 56 attacks and 3 deaths. I think Golden retrievers were 11 attacks and 3 deaths. Either way, as I initially suggested and dbd reitterated, there are a hell of a lot more Labs than say Malamutes and therefore a lot more bites but half the number of deaths..

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Dog training classes should be compulsary, unless you can show that you have good control over the animal.

Don't any of these people even bother to read up on this stuff? Most aggressively acting dogs behavior is caused by nervous owners with too tight leashes and a dog that thinks it's the boss or that it has to protect them.

Sigh.

The dog that thinks I am her owner won't even walk through a door before me, let alone in front on me on leash!

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

I dunno...the one I saw had a sort of top 20 and the ones at the lower end were a handfull - just four or five and then as you got higher up the list there were hundreds and then the top ones had thousands, literally.

Here it is....the slideshow from that article....just to illustrate the huge differences.

• #1 - Pit Bull*
  
• Attacks doing bodily harm: 3,397
• Deaths: 295

• #2 - Rottweiler
  
• Attacks doing bodily harm: 535
• Deaths: 85

• #3 - German Shepherd
  
• Attacks doing bodily harm: 113
• Deaths: 15

• #6 - Boxer
  
• Attacks doing bodily harm: 64
• Deaths: 7

• #8 - Labrador Retriever
  
• Attacks doing bodily harm: 56
• Deaths: 3

• #31 - Beagle
  
• Attacks doing bodily harm: 4
• Deaths: 1

• #35 - Great Pyrenees
  
• Attacks doing bodily harm: 4
• Deaths: 1

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

I know I harp on about this, but I miss Geordie still.

Attacks 0
Deaths -2

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

I wonder if rotties are as bad as some people think.

My son has a rottie-collie mix. Looks like a collie, coloured like a rottie. She is the nicest, gentlest creature on earth. She'd mother a stray slug.

He had another dog. A rottie-retreiver mix. Looked terrifying and could probably bite a tree in half. A two-year old could push him around with impunity.

Re: Pit bulls and Rottweilers
 

I think that the gist is that any dog can cause injury and potentially death whatever the breed. Some breeds partly due to the owners are owned as weapons. Pit bulls certainly are more aggressive I reckon in particular although I'm sure that there are many gentle examples of the breed, I still think that there is a psycho living in most of them though. That is one breed I certainly would ban. Rotties less so, although their bite force is twice as strong as many dogs which is a tad alarming.

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I had a dog trainer friend who said many things. Amongst them were:

Never trust a dog that isn't yours, and even then it's risky sometimes
Don't think digs are great with kids and leave dog and child alone together, esp if food or toys are involved
Never forget what the bred was developed to do, terriers chase prey and kill. Bull terriers grab on and don't let go. Sheepdogs herd.
A pit bull can cause more damage because of the strength of its jaws, it will bite and hang on until its prey is dead.

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Retrievers retrieve😉... We practice food bowl safety and toy safety with our dog, I'd like to say daily like the breeder recommended but it's certainly often..