Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

Dont waste my time.:frown:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Ken...ddick_incident

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

I am not wasting you're time. You and I (and CO) are WELL aware of her reasons for that post, if you choose to ignore those thats fine.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

And you and I both know why you reported it. Its petty and stupid.

If you lived in the UK then its very likely all you would know of Ted Kennedy is Chapaquidic. Hell, even in Canada he was a peripheral figure in US politics as an elder statesman, no matter how interesting his life was.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

I'd never heard of that till just now. Saying that, the only thing I did know about him was his dodgy IRA funding past.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

No Iain what is stupid, is the fact the mods are still trying to maintain that CO does make GLARING mistakes. We are all aware that she made that post with the intention of getting a rise out of me.

If you are going to continually accuse me of being inflammatory and Troll like then ffs get your collective heads out of the sand and do something about CO. I'm sure she's a nice girl and she has her heart in the right place but no way is she cut out to be a Mod.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

OK so the Kennedys supposedly funded the IRA.

Western Govts have a record of funding terrorist and guerilla organisations across the globe.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

quite. i can understand why Iain would defend a fellow mod, but now i am afraid this position is becoming indefensible. Iain you are starting to undermine your own credibility on here which is a shame.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

For the last 20 or so years the right wing in the US loved him. As he was easy fodder to ridicule because of his fondness for the sauce and his tendency to shag around. It was shame really because his political ideas were much more sensible and compassionate than his loony right wing detractors.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

hmmm i think you are on very very thin ice with this one. Of course it is a matter of fact, possibly disputed in some quarters still, but nonetheless widely accepted that 'certain' western governments, the US being the obvious culprit supported certain 'groups'. However, i feel you will struggle to draw an accurate comparison between the PIRA and the Taliban.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

This is neither the time nor the place to get into a philisophical or ethical debate on the IRA. However what I will say is that the IRA made some big mistakes and it has been suggested that the British Army went into NI NOT to protect the Protestants from the Catholics (civilians and paramilitary forces) but to protect the Catholics from the Protestants.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

That's not been just suggested, that was the stated aim at first, to keep the peace between the two sides. It was only later that the British Armed force was deemed to be collaborating with union supporters.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

but you say there is not enough interesting or intellectual debate on here butch, you raised what could be an interesting point, so i commented on it. you can't have it both ways, this was a chance to get out of what became nothing more than a personal bitching session.

i don't think there would be any issue with the rest of what you put.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

this has been well documented also with the stalker enquiry and the chinook crash in scotland which i still personally believe was the government effort to get rid of the last dissenters to the peace process.

still missing comment on the support of the IRA by western governments being similar to that of other 'organisations'

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

Other than Libya, I don't recall any Western governments that funded any Irish republican armed forces. PAC's and other sympathetic organizations are another matter.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

Well - yes. Govts are usually systematically evil.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

Didn't some IRA guys get caught somewhere in south america training some rebels. Can't remember which country it was, but I remember it being embarrassing for the republican movement at the time as it was just after 9/11.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

I believe they were freelance ex-PRIA volunteers that were being paid to provide knowledge and training to the FARC in Columbia.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

no me either, if even you can call libya western. i think butch was alluding to the states and afghanistan, amongst others, french in north africa, etc.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

I bet theres a rule somewhere that states you can't start a poll to see how many people want to keep a certain mod or not

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

was it columbia, thought it was belize for some reason. anyhow what i do recall was it was essentially fund raising/arms supply for the splinter group the Real IRA.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

been there on the other mod thread recently, was a resounding no if i recall.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

Who'd want the job anyway? No offene to iaink or CO, but it's a suckers job. You don't get paid, you get loads of shit, it takes up time. I fail to see what they get out of it.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

The motivation for training the FARC was never really established. It may have simply been a combination of political ideology and personal gain.
There's no evidence that they were members or supporters of the CIRA or RIRA.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

No kidding. I think they do a good job under the circumstances, I'd just wish any pejorative comments would cease.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

yup theres 99% of them do a good job - I certainly wouldn't do it

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

I agree - but I don't think you see that many truly pejorative comments; a lot of iaink's seem to be banter done with varying degrees of success. I do know I'd be a lot less tolerant as a mod, but then I'd never do the job for the reasons I gave earlier.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

It just was a generalized concern not an indictment of anybody in particular.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

Haha - I knew that. This issue seems to have contaminated several threads now - it's like a virus.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

the 3R4P virus?

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

One of my older car forums kept it simple

Don't like the Moderation.................. Move!

in fact the more i think about it almost all the forums I've ever been on in the Internet have had that philosophy, one put it neatly... "this ain't a democracy no matter how hard you try to make it one"

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

fair point, me either.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

certainly personal gain, though it may be the case that a concrete reason was never established in court, the men involved certainly were known republican terrorists and had links to the Real IRA. Continuity IRA are another ball park altogether, these were the old time republican hardliners who genuinely thought they may still succeed in their struggle for a united Ireland. Real IRA were/are simply the criminal element who have seen their power dissipate with the advent of PSNI and lack of wider support.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

I never seen any link between these men and the RIRA, the PIRA yes. Designating criminality can a be tricky business when it comes to political conflict. War without 'crime' is impossible.
The provos were considered a criminal terrorist organization for 30 years, now look where they are now. History is replete with these turn arounds, usually depending on who wins.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

Perhaps not, but the link is there, PIRA had dissolved by this point.
With regard to criminality, yes, but i would say war crimes would be particular to ethnic cleansing, rape, assault, thefts and plundering during the actual war or after the battle, if you see my point. The groups in Ireland on both sides were actively engaged in prostitution, drug dealing, bank robberies to name a few in order to fund raise. The other side being just career criminals who operated under the banner of these orginisations for protection then paid up for this.
Sorry if this reads like a lecture, but i believe there is a real difference between PIRA its splinters and other groups across the world. I think they will be forever unique in their operation, the length of time they did it for, funding and the atrocities they committed in a leading NATO, UN, G8 etc country.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

I don't mind discussion at all as long it doesn't evolve into argumentum ad hominem. I agree with lots of your points it just small forum like this can gloss over the complexities of such a long political conflict. Nearly all such conflicts will have splinter groups whose vision/ideology is considered purer.
I spent a lot of my graduate work working on the history of Irish British relations, with particular focus from the 1920s to the GFA. My biggest problem was to remain as objective as I could but I've always struggled to not take sides. That said, other perspectives and experiences are always welcome.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

Where do you stand on the Mafia?

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

well i would say they are purely a criminal organisation, not terrorist linked, or are they? not heard it before to be honest if they are.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

oh absolutely, you could go on forever i agree.
With regard to your work i think that is very interesting and you will have more knowledge than me, on that point where do you stand on Michael Collins, folk hero? rebel? terrorist? martyr?

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

You may be right in making a distinction, but I don't see it. The Mafia are certainly a political force who use terror to further their aims.

Re: Which is more 'newsworthy'?
 

Historical figure. :)