Interesting post Brexit development
 

EU citizenship proposal could guarantee rights in Europe after Brexit (full article)

Kind of an opt out of Brexit ;)

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

Yes, saw that. Where do i sign? :thumbup:

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

On this piece of paper. I'll fill out the rest for you ;)

What's especially interesting about it is the reference to a five-fold increase in Brits applying for citizenship across 18 countries, presumably those with established connections to those countries; most likely because that's where they live.

Unless I missed something, this proposal would appear to allow the granting of 'associate citizenship' simply because they want to having been a citizen of a former member state.

I wonder how some of the more extreme Brexiters would view anyone taking up such an option. Brussels collaborator? :lol:

I favour Bresistance. ;)

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

It would be interesting politically if a vast number of Brits signed up for it, as it would call into question the referendum result. Although it remains to be seen whether such a associate citizenship is feasible in the first place.

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It looks too much like a one-way deal to me, so I'm not sure ho it could fly.

I'm hoping that Scotland with adopt similarly friendly citizenship rules post-split to Eire now, ie all Northern Irish are immediately entitled to Irish citizenship. Hopefully Scotland will do the same for British Scots when Britain is abolished, since my ancestry is probably to circumstantial to use for a scrutinised application.

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

Maybe it won't get much attention in Europe and it'll get passed before anyone realises it. And it could be a nice fund raiser.

Another thought that occurs is that one of the main things that has caused bitterness is the potential loss of the right to live and work in Europe. If a country can leave the EU while its citizens retain those rights, it makes it a bit easier for a country to leave.

One assumes the EU won't want to make that easier so may not go for this idea.

But...
It's a very nice thought isn't it. I don't mean a nice thought as in a good idea (although it is a very nice idea), I mean it shows concern for people who were 'previously' EU citizens and would like to remain so.

It's such a nice thought from an organisation that one wonders who wouldn't want to be a member of it. :confused:

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

So what happens if you only have English roots but you want to stay part of Europe?

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

Before I came to Canada I had planned to take early retirement and live in Spain.

The way I'm reading it is that being a Brit and therefore a citizen of a member state of the EU and, therefore, a citizen of the EU, if the country then leaves the EU, the individual citizen may retain their status by being an associate citizen of the EU.

So Brexit wouldn't necessarily stop me living in Spain. I would have preferred Nice area, France but "Vancouver style" prices, ya know? :rofl:

I suppose it would be a bit like being a PR of Canada and no longer qualifying to be a Canadian Citizen but still being a PR.

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

Is there any question about the result?

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If one wanted to immigrate to a country in Europe one would apply to do so in much the same way as one did prior to the free movement of workers.

It will not be the end of the world although, of course, one would have to jump through whatever hurdles the destination country wish to put up, much in the same way as one does now when, for example, wishing to establish one's profession in countries such as France who, as can be seen from the mountains of caselaw in the ECJ, routinely refuse to acknowledge qualifications earned outside of France, despite the fact that the rules of the EU specifically prohibit such action.

Storm in a teacup and all that :p

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As I mentioned in another thread on the same proposal, it's pure fantasy.

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But this amendment would actually mean that wasn't necessary. Certainly there would likely be an application process, as one applies for a passport, but it appears to be saying that being a citizen of a former member state, one would would qualify.

With the important difference between working in one's profession as opposed to the more straightforward option of simply working.

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

I think an interesting legal position


Currently I'm living in the UK as a British citizen and at this time I am also a EU citizen


Does the UK leaving > remove my right to EU citizenship ?


what this considers is my choice to ask to retain it


The UK assumes that you want to retain your citizenship when you adopt another one, however the US doesn't and expect you to hold only one !


this would allow many to hold both a UK and EU citizenship post Brexit, why is this so odd ? its fit many normal national citizenships
and I would imagine it would only apply to those alive during EU membership


Standard legal stuff IMHO

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

An excellent point. Very succinct.

The major reason for people thinking it won't go ahead is that it wouldn't be a reciprocal arrangement. Well, it very well might be, we don't know yet. Thoughts expressed in the UK so far suggest it might or, at least EU citizens in the UK might retain rights in the UK.

But there are two things that occur. One is that the idea applies to citizens of any country leaving the EU, not just one; why should it be reciprocated?

The second point is that there are many things, in Europe, over decades that are not reciprocal. Ever since we joined, there have been many social security benefits available to other Europeans in the UK with no equivalent available to Brits when in the rest of Europe. Ditto for NHS and other medical or public services.

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

So many issues though, BUK (that's you, BristolUK :))...wouldn't the EU see this as the ultimate "cake and eat it" affording Brits mobility rights, whilst Britain slams the door on continental Europeans? Taxation, would the EU make some provision to impose a "EU tax" on Brits who opt in (and who knows, this could become a founding principle for the superstate)? Would May and the stooges even permit such a joint citizenry? Personally,I like the idea, but think it's half baked, or probably even one quarter baked.

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

Maybe there's a bigger picture. I'm not sure what I've said here or on the thread in Spain :ohmy: but....

The proposal is about citizens of former member countries and even if Britain did slam the door, other leavers may not.

Of course, the EU likely doesn't want any leavers and it might be argued that if a major objection of ordinary people to leaving is the loss of right to live in another EU country and by retaining that right, there may be less of an obstacle for a country to leave.

On the other hand there's a general acceptance that the experience of people living in other countries is good for all parties. And they are contributing so why wouldn't the remaining EU nations want that to continue? It might look a bit petty to say "well if you don't want our people there, we don't want your people here." Don't we like to be above that sort of thing?

While the EU doesn't want countries to leave, it's probably fair to say they'd welcome leavers back. Wouldn't that path be easier and, perhaps, more likely if the citizens of a departing country remained EU citizens?

Doesn't it say an awful lot about Canadian politics that Brexit and the US election generates more activity? :rofl:

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

Our daughter is doing a year of university in Nice now and we're going for Christmas. Just send a cheque made out to me and I'll put down a deposit on a villa on the Cote D'Azur for you.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

From the Fundy Riviera to the French Riveira.

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

Oh, I didn't realise it was former citizens only.

It does say something about Canadian politics, mind you, apart from Caretaker, we're not exactly an unbiased crowd here (with respect to UK politics). I find Canadian politics deathly dull, I suppose that's the byproduct of having a relatively stable, cohesive and well functioning country.

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

Here's a blank one. Just fill in the details.
http://www.123print.ca/wp-content/up...heque-blue.jpg

Although property was mostly expensive, I remember seeing a studio apartment advertised that my equity would have covered and it appeared to be part of the Negresco hotel building as use of guest facilities was mentioned. :unsure:

I was in Nice the first week of December once. Very nice.

Loads of the bars and cafes still had their outside areas open which I found hard to believe from a distance but it's still nice enough with the outdoor heaters. When the sun's out sometimes screens were enough.

We went to Cannes intending to go to the Carlton for a pot of tea on the Terrace but it was closed. Over the road and along a bit there was a restaurant with a sort of patio actually on the beach. They had screens up, no heater and we had lunch there. I sat in a short sleeved T-Shirt and got tanned arms in the time we were there in the warm sun. It was like summer.

:rofl:


Here's a bit from the guardian:
The amendment...proposes a European associate citizenship “for those who feel and wish to be part of the European project but are nationals of a former member state”.

The amendment suggests that associate citizenship should “offer these associate citizens the rights of freedom of movement and to reside on its territory, as well as being represented in the parliament through a vote in the European elections on the European lists”.

And usually little to choose between the options available so there's never really any disappointment. No missed chance for something enlightened, for example, because there's no enlightened option to begin with.

Although I have seen some positives over the last couple of years, mainly locally. :thumbup:

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

USA permits dual citizenship as does Canada and UK.

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I did a bit of googling to get other views on this proposal. One of the results coming up was the Daily Express.

Its report was headed something about wanting cake and eating it, so no bias there then. :lol:

Despite that they ran a poll - good thing or bad thing.

Despite the bias of their reporting, 70% thought it a good thing. :thumbsup:

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

Sorry


the 'Official' correct position of the US Gov is The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause.


the UK and Canada support Dual Citizenship

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

I think that's correct. I hear that renouncing your US citizenship is viewed pretty much as burning the flag whilst chanting communist workers songs.

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

I know someone who did this when becoming a Danish citizen. The US embassy sent people to chat to her, make her realise the error of her ways. Also an old school friend married a US serviceman and "they" weren't pleased when she refused to apply for US citizenship.

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

Boris Johnson had to renounce his US citizenship. I don't think the authorities shed any tears.

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Indonesia, where I'm currently living till spring/summer, doesn't permit dual-citizenship.

An Indonesian was the CEO of a major USA Energy Company and acquired USA citizenship but he didn't renounce his Indonesian Citizenship....which is basically a crime.
Recently he was sworn in as the Minister of Energy in Indonesia ....then someone found out he was an American and he was fired from that Cabinet job.
He subsequently relinquished his USA Citizenship and passport, regained his Indonesian one, and is now the Deputy Minister of Energy.

...go figure these countries.
They should permit dual-citizenship so those smart Indonesians, that were educated abroad and became citizens, could return and help the country develop.

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

Davita, totally off topic, but I read that in Indonesia, there is very little concern for those two young women that were killed in Hong Kong by the psycho British banker? Is that true? Are the Indonesians really the judgemental?

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

Off topic but interesting that you know about it but here it hardly touched the news...abuse like that happens a lot with so many Indonesian maids working abroad. There is little protection from the Gov't.
It is terrible but people here are more worried about the recent rally/almost riot where an extreme Muslim group are determined to overthrow the elected Governor of Jakarta because he's a Chinese Indonesian and Christian....he has done a great job but those religious nuts get so incited to mob rule.
Someone is pulling their string as they get a small payment to attend these 'so-called' rallies...and cause damage.
I suggest not visiting Jakarta anytime soon.

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

A matter of semantics. Dual citizenship is the state of holding two or more citizenship concurrently. It can be legal or illegal under nationality law of the state in question. US, Canadian and British nationality law permit you to hold an additional citizenship. Whether the US Government 'encourages' it or not is irrelevant.

Exercising your First Amendment rights does not lead to loss of citizenship.

Boris has claimed to have renounced his US citizenship on several occasions now but I suspect it's highly likely he has never followed through.

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

Maybe Boris is angling after a Trump cabinet position...he could represent him at foreign meetings as a look-alike. Most Asian officials wouldn't know the difference...they think all 'gaijin' 'gweilo' 'bule' 'infidels' look alike anyway.

And just maybe he's looking at the top job after Trump...he is eminently suitable as he didn't pay IRS taxes either...:thumbdown:

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

Since Boris was born in New York and Trump's mother was born in Scotland I'm looking forward to Boris becoming Prime Minster in 2020 and then the two of them can do a job swap and Trump can be PM for a bit whilst BoJo runs for President.

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Not sure if having those top jobs means keeping dual-citizenship but...what the heck...both these guys think they can bend all the rules anyway.
Right now I can only envisage news of two robotic flown aircraft, one passenger each, running into each other mid-Atlantic..:fingerscrossed:

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

The Fantasy gathers momentum. ;)

EU Brexit chief: 'Let Britons keep freedom of movement'
:fingerscrossed:

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

Nailed it.

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Verhofstadt said the exact same thing five months ago. I would hardly describe this 'gathering momentum'.

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As of now, 'in approximately' 21 days to go till 'article 50 is triggered'

Can we please get this over & done with and to stop dragging it out till then

What is Article 50? The only explanation you need to read

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

No, not really momentum, but definitely fantasy. However, now that the A50 date is looming, there does seem to be a momentum building amongst the auto and financial sectors on the disaster that awaits. Never mind, the vicars daughter ought to be able to rebuild the Empire, and start selling English wine to the French.

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

Shard @ post #37

Is it possible there will be a financial crisis once "A50" is triggered, or that the current state of affairs is already factored in Brexit which has been known since the referendum?

While others may disagree, I wouldn't expect any change either way in the 'financial circus' come April 1,

Re: Interesting post Brexit development
 

Obviously not. However, over the coming years, certain sectors of the finance industry will rebase to the EU, either through necessity (regulation) or inducements. The City won't collapse, but I think it will shrink.

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Well the Luxembourg bloke was the first one, in November, this guy is second (December) and has raised the subject again so it's not going backwards or standing still.

Perhaps it's just going sideways :lol: