Re: if the scots go, do you care?
 

I'm not entirely sure it is his (Camerons) job to avoid it. His official position is obvious and I'm not sure he needs to keep beating that drum.

It's probably more of an issue for Osborne to focus on. He's come out and basically told Salmond that there won't be a currency union if the Scottish people vote to leave. That sounds obvious - obviously the rest of the UK would need to vote on such a thing and would likely tell the Scots to be on their way. George is basically upping the ante which is fine...he holds all the cards.

The SNP have been reduced to calling it "bullying". It's a pretty hilarious state of affairs for the casual observer.

Re: if the scots go, do you care?
 

...and then some. Try re-reading the article with the insertion of "Osborne's pronouncements about the pound are about as ridiculous as if he'd said this:" as a first sentence! :)

Re: if the scots go, do you care?
 

But truly, why is it just England's £?

Re: if the scots go, do you care?
 

It isn't. It's the UK's pound. If the Scottish leave the UK then they've obviously decided they don't want to use it. Except they're trying to have it both ways.

Being told this obvious fact is "bullying" apparently.

You'd think Salmond and Sturgeon were kids leaving home but wanting Mum and Dad to pay the rent on the new flat with the comedic statements they've been making recently.

Re: if the scots go, do you care?
 

because, if Scotland chooses to leave the Union, then the rest-of-UK continues without Scotland. The SNP's position seems to be that they want political and economic independence but want to absolve themselves of all fiscal and monetary decisions, deferring those to London. That is a fundamentally flawed position.

The Bank of England has a fairly high degree of autonomy from the Westminster government, at least in the minutiae of policymaking within the broad economic guidelines agreed with the Chancellor. It has no mandate beyond serving the fiscal needs of the country governed from Westminster, no matter where that country's borders lie. An independent Scotland would need its own Treasury department in Edinburgh, its own regulatory regime for financial institutions, its own central bank, and its own sovereign currency.

A state cannot be truly independent without full control over all of its financial instruments. The Eurozone economies have found this out to their cost: Greece and Spain have had to impose strict austerity budgets at the behest of "foreign" powers; Germany has had to suck up the costs of financing the bailouts of "foreign" debtors.

If Scotland wants independence but needs currency support, then - apart from being an admission of failure before the process even starts - it's really rather a half-baked sort of independence.

Re: if the scots go, do you care?
 

Playing devils advocate here - why can't Scotland leave the union, still remain friends with the rest of the UK?
Because Scotland has been tied to the UK for so long, they have not had the opportunity to build their own credit rating as a country, hence making it extremely costly to borrow, if anyone took that leap of faith at all. How is that fair? perhaps it is the UK that wants it all?

Re: if the scots go, do you care?
 

I don't disagree. IF Scotland wants to be totally independent then she can't rely on the Bank of England, Carney has said as much. I think the Euro would be a major mistake even it we were allowed to have it. So, what's the alternative? have our own Scottish pound, our own treasury etc, all sounds fine, except we have zero credit rating and will be up sh1t creek without a paddle without one.

Re: if the scots go, do you care?
 

They can remain friends. The issue is the SNP seem to be cherry-pickers extraordinaire.

Maybe no else was paying attention to what happened in the EU as a result of having a shared currency but completely different political structures.

It would appear Scotland wants to have it's own political structures, the oil, some "portion" of UK debt but at the same time be instantly a country of the EU, keep the UK pound (while having no control over it), be rid of stuff like Trident even though many Scottish jobs apparently depend on it.

It's the picking and choosing that it is the problem. Should be a clean question - do you want "full" independence or not?

Re: if the scots go, do you care?
 

Again, I don't disagree to a point, but, why should Scotland walk away with nothing other than a portion of the debt? If we've been part of the Union for so long, contributed to that union, don't we deserve some privileges in return? are we only allowed debt? why can't we just walk into the EU if that's what we want? we've been part of it with the Union for decades, why can't we stay as a country in our own right? we've earned that surely? look at the other countries that have made their way in? we are no worse than those.

I've always been in the NO camp. I don't want to see the Union broken, I think we all have more to gain being together. I don't like a lot of the Salmond/Sturgeon platform, it hasn't been thought through enough. There are no firm solution/answers to many questions (of mine at least).

Re: if the scots go, do you care?
 

And therein lies one of the strongest rational arguments for remaining in the union. For all Salmond's posturing, Scotland is not anything like strong enough economically to stand on its own two feet. It is not ready for independence.

Forget all the Braveheart emotional-heartstring-tugging appeals of the "we deserve it" brigade. This is the battleground on which the debate should be raging. Sadly for the future of Scotland, the Yes campaign is playing a very clever campaign game by obfuscating the facts and calling "no fair" anytime anybody points out their failures of logic.

Re: if the scots go, do you care?
 

Not if you vote to leave it.

Re: if the scots go, do you care?
 

they will assume their portion of the debt but will retain the assets too

sadly i am familiar with concept having lived in quebec and having endured two referendums

Re: if the scots go, do you care?
 

:goodpost:I can only hope that people vote with their heads and not their hearts. Changes could still be made in and for Scotland without the need for separation.

Re: if the scots go, do you care?
 

Why?

Re: if the scots go, do you care?
 

Scotland actively votes to leave a union and then wants "privileges" of said union based on "length of time served" ?

That's a ridiculous position.

I don't personally have a solid opinion either way. If Scotland stays in fine. But if the Scottish people decide on independence then it should be exactly that. Independence - go it alone - do it yourself. However you want to frame it.