I hate the Bruins
Jun 18th 2011 | 7:37 am
#211
half a century
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 10,222
From: Sarf Lundun to East Van :)
Re: I hate the Bruins
I think we're arguing two different points here. I'm talking about widespread lack of responsibility, not saying all kids are thugs. I AM, however, saying that there's every likelihood that the vandalism and violence on Wednesday, was home grown, and that must have been a shock to parents, who, in my opinion and experience here, are in delusion as a parent, and their kids seem to be brain dead. I was only in a park yesterday and one of my kids kicked off, and EVERYBODY stared at me instantly as if to say go sort it out. Rushing in the moment one of the kids is frustrated over something is fairly typical of this place. Kids will NEVER learn if all you do is intervene. They'll just grow up to take no personal responsibility, and end up doing something, like uhm, burning cars or looting Sears. It's the same with allergies. It seems that most kids here have a collection of food intolerances. Again this is no doubt to over-bearing, over-protective, holier than thou parents, rushing in to protect little Jay from the slightest impurity in the world, causing their immune system to be ineffective, and demanding that they spend the rest of their life in a protective bubble. I mean almost every kid seems to have some allergy or other, and these are down to parents destroying their immune system through being over-protective. Tantamount to child abuse, some might argue. But those same parents would look down their snout at someone letting their child's immune system develop. All contributes to the "I'm so perfect" syndrome this place is flooded with.
Although I cannot help but to agree with you about East Van. It is the part that the people who I'm referring to (snobs), look down their nose at. My realtor when I moved here, really aggressively encouraged me to not consider looking here. That was bad advice though as it is about the most pleasant, and exciting part of Vancouver, with more genuine, likeable and down to earth people. I think I made more friends since living in East Van, over a few months, than in the 7 years I've been in Vancouver area.
Although I cannot help but to agree with you about East Van. It is the part that the people who I'm referring to (snobs), look down their nose at. My realtor when I moved here, really aggressively encouraged me to not consider looking here. That was bad advice though as it is about the most pleasant, and exciting part of Vancouver, with more genuine, likeable and down to earth people. I think I made more friends since living in East Van, over a few months, than in the 7 years I've been in Vancouver area.
aha- you see, I have been brain aching thinking maybe i am on a different planet but the kids here seem genuine. Several people that know where I live have commented after the event - ooh Commercial must have been full on , bet they rioted there on wednesday too - nope , all quiet on the eastern front (they were probably looting dt
)
Jun 18th 2011 | 7:44 am
#212
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,695
From: Vancouver, BC
Re: I hate the Bruins
Although I cannot help but to agree with you about East Van. It is the part that the people who I'm referring to (snobs), look down their nose at. My realtor when I moved here, really aggressively encouraged me to not consider looking here. That was bad advice though as it is about the most pleasant, and exciting part of Vancouver, with more genuine, likeable and down to earth people. I think I made more friends since living in East Van, over a few months, than in the 7 years I've been in Vancouver area.
Gotta say where I live is more like east van in terms of likeable down to earth and sane people/parents...that's why we live here. I am sorry your realtor did that...why they do that I don't know, but I think there is very much a mentality difference between the person who seeks to live in say, Coquitlam and someone who wants to live in EV and he/she probably thought you were in that box and were doing you a favour. It also happened to friends of mine who moved from the US to BC. They got a suburban realtor who only showed them Coquitlam, deep burnaby and some other 'burb and slagged off EV. Of course when they moved here they discovered how great it is and now wish they'd never listened.
Jun 18th 2011 | 9:59 am
#213
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,060
From: Salt Spring Island, BC, Canada
Re: I hate the Bruins
Not so. These people take advantage of any large gathering like this. There are FB posts that showed the pre-meditation. It would have happened win or lose.
Jun 18th 2011 | 10:12 am
#215
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 40,070
From: Ontario
Re: I hate the Bruins
Do they travel from Vancouver to cause riots in, say, Montreal? Are they something like the "firms" that follow English football teams?
I suggest not, the nature of American sport is that any game has few away fans, an ice hockey riot in Vancouver involves people who live in Vancouver and one in Montreal involves people who live in Montreal. Ice hockey doesn't generally draw an interested crowd, it's mostly a game in which tickets are sold to corporations and given away to people who don't care about the outcome but, at the end of the season, people do take an interest and, when things don't go their way, they set fire to cars.
It's only once a year and in a different city each year so not worthy of much a fuss in my view but the last game of the ice hockey final is like a Celtic Rangers match in having predictable consequences.
I suggest not, the nature of American sport is that any game has few away fans, an ice hockey riot in Vancouver involves people who live in Vancouver and one in Montreal involves people who live in Montreal. Ice hockey doesn't generally draw an interested crowd, it's mostly a game in which tickets are sold to corporations and given away to people who don't care about the outcome but, at the end of the season, people do take an interest and, when things don't go their way, they set fire to cars.
It's only once a year and in a different city each year so not worthy of much a fuss in my view but the last game of the ice hockey final is like a Celtic Rangers match in having predictable consequences.
Jun 18th 2011 | 10:33 am
#216
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,060
From: Salt Spring Island, BC, Canada
Re: I hate the Bruins
There are experts in this world who study crowd behaviour who would completely disagree with you. What happened after the game the other night was classic social identitiy theory and therefore certainly contributed to by hockey fans, perhaps even normal peace-loving Vancouverites (yes, even). You won't believe me because you are embarrassed about what happened, and of course because of the stories emerging the following day (post-it notes on cars etc). Trust me, this is not a Vancouver issue. Leaders and instigators are necessary, of course, and yes much of this might well have been pre-meditated but once the blue paper is lit ...
Jun 18th 2011 | 10:58 am
#217
Binned by Muderators
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,708
From: White Rock BC
Re: I hate the Bruins
I am not sure why this is so controversial. There is an element here (and not just here) that wants to provoke a riot. It has been going on for years. They tried during the Olympics but the crowd, who were sober and having a good time, told them to **** off. On Wednesday night they found much more receptive accomplices in pissed up hockey fans.
Jun 18th 2011 | 1:38 pm
#218
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 14,227
Re: I hate the Bruins
I am not sure why this is so controversial. There is an element here (and not just here) that wants to provoke a riot. It has been going on for years. They tried during the Olympics but the crowd, who were sober and having a good time, told them to **** off. On Wednesday night they found much more receptive accomplices in pissed up hockey fans.
Jun 18th 2011 | 1:41 pm
#219
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,695
From: Vancouver, BC
Re: I hate the Bruins
I agree, it's freaking irritating.
Jun 18th 2011 | 1:44 pm
#220
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,259
From: Europe (to be specified).
Jun 18th 2011 | 2:02 pm
#221
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,695
From: Vancouver, BC
Jun 18th 2011 | 2:16 pm
#222
Thread Starter
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,244
From: Toronto, ON
Re: I hate the Bruins
I don't see that anything you have said disagrees with my post. I am ex-psych student and know about mob mentality and there were those who got carried in this but, as you say yourself, it was pre-meditated and planned by a few instigators who had nothing to do with hockey. This is not due to embarrassment on my part but on sheer disgust and by what I know about Vancouver from living there for 20 years.
The point I was making is that 'the many' lost their sense of who they were 9-5 in the melee of that evening, what values they normally have, whether they believe in that kind of behaviour normally at all. These were quite probably hockey fans and Vancouverites. It's understandable to feel disgusted, but it's not a Vancouver problem at all. With the right conditions it can happen anywhere. There's some excellent stuff published on this phenomenon (not by me, but I've read it).
I'll stop writing now because I'm aware that I'm starting to sound like an arse.
Jun 18th 2011 | 2:30 pm
#223
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,695
From: Vancouver, BC
Re: I hate the Bruins
Ok, let's just suppose for a second that 'the few' who created the environment for the disturbance on Weds were not hockey fans (yet, how you can be so sure of this is a mystery - have they been surveyed for sporting opinions?). The majority of the damage and pointless destruction was caused by 'the many' - not just instigators but a wider group of people in the downtown core. These must've been hockey fans, right? Would you agree with me here? I have seen multiple images of people on burning cars wearing the Canucks jersey at least.
The point I was making is that 'the many' lost their sense of who they were 9-5 in the melee of that evening, what values they normally have, whether they believe in that kind of behaviour normally at all. These were quite probably hockey fans and Vancouverites. It's understandable to feel disgusted, but it's not a Vancouver problem at all. With the right conditions it can happen anywhere. There's some excellent stuff published on this phenomenon (not by me, but I've read it).
I'll stop writing now because I'm aware that I'm starting to sound like an arse.
The point I was making is that 'the many' lost their sense of who they were 9-5 in the melee of that evening, what values they normally have, whether they believe in that kind of behaviour normally at all. These were quite probably hockey fans and Vancouverites. It's understandable to feel disgusted, but it's not a Vancouver problem at all. With the right conditions it can happen anywhere. There's some excellent stuff published on this phenomenon (not by me, but I've read it).
I'll stop writing now because I'm aware that I'm starting to sound like an arse.
I shocked my coworkers y/day by admitting I don't feel remotely embarrassed by what happened and that I am tired of the sanctimoniousness around it, that as far as I'm concerned it's just human nature in action...the bad side, but that's part of being human. They were literally staring at me with their mouths hanging open. Charge the little f***kers and move on.
Last edited by ExKiwilass; Jun 18th 2011 at 2:39 pm.
Jun 18th 2011 | 2:52 pm
#224
Beep
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,311
From: Here
Re: I hate the Bruins
I see the young hockey fan pictured setting the police car alight is the son of a Dr from Maple Ridge.
Jun 18th 2011 | 4:07 pm
#225
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 14,227
Re: I hate the Bruins
Apparently he's had a number of threats to his person for his behaviour. I'm not sure if those making these threats appreciate the irony of not.
