Pizzawheel

Came across this article- pop up ad, I'd usually ignore the Express as a matter of course:

NHS hospital patients to show PASSPORTS to stop health tourism costing £2bn | UK | News | Daily Express

I'm not sure the passport will do it but it's a start. I'm baffled that they couldn't get the ID card going when Ontario has no problem with their OHIP cards...

scrubbedexpat091

They don't give those eligible for healthcare an ID to prove it?

We have care cards or a personal health number on our drivers license to prove we are eligible in BC.

Atlantic Xpat

Given the price of dental procedures here, if I needed something done that wasn't going to be covered by my dental plan, I'd seriously investigate having it done - and paying for it - in the UK. Case in point, I'm having root canal work next week that will cost $1300. An admittedly quick google of UK private practice dentists seems to indicate that I could get this done cheaper in the UK. And thats without trying to get the NHS to do it for free.

SchnookoLoly

Three years ago when my Mom was visiting me in London, she fell down my stairs and messed up her toe. Her foot was swollen, she couldn't walk very well, and was in a lot of pain. She has travel insurance, so we went to the walk-in clinic near my flat, and they said we should go to the hospital instead as it would need ot be xrayed and such. Mom told the receptionist at the clinic she had all her info for her travel insurance, and the receptionist just said she had to provide a UK address (they wouldn't take her Canadian address) and they'd mail a bill. Fine, whatever.

So off we went to the hospital. Mom again tried to give all her insurance and address info, and they wouldn't even look at it. She had her foot xrayed, was given local anaesthetic, had the toe reset (it was just dislocated), and then xrayed again to make sure it was set, then bandaged up to heal. When they said she could leave she again tried to pay, tried to give insurance, etc. They also would not take her Canadian address, so she gave my UK one.

Mom opened a claim with the insurance company that afternoon... we never received ANY bill. Nothing. The insurance company was calling Mom about once a month going "Uh, we are ready to pay, have you seen any bill yet?" Finally after a year they closed the claim and said that if we did receive a bill to just call them and they'd reopen it.

Compare that to when we were in the US and my husband was bitten by a tick. He went to the hospital, they took a deposit before they'd even speak to him, and we received a bill in the UK 3 weeks later. Got it all reimbursed by travel insurance minus a 50 quid deductible.

And there's any question about why the NHS is spending way more money? There is clearly zero control for billing those who are not entitled to health care... I know the NHS says they won't deny emergency service (neither will the US) and that not everyone will pay, but to not even attempt to receive payment?!

withabix

The NHS are useless at billing anyone and always have been, despite having enough back-office staff to run an entire country. Or several.

The last Labour government introduced a National Identity Card in 2006, but it was never implemented as it was getting far too expensive and was apparently a breach of Civil Liberties (see also the Charter Rights whiners in Canada...).

The main problem was that it was being run by the UK Borger Agency and cards issued by the Passport office in Durham. Neither of these organizations is know for their competence, hard work or efficiency (being public sector).

As the card scheme was dying a slow painful death, the current government cancelled it as one of their first actions.

Almost Canadian

Were my family the only people in the UK to be given a health card?

Pizzawheel

You'd think implementing an Ontario style health card scheme would be pretty straightforward. Even if you just brought over people who implemented/ run that scheme.

The BC system seems too logical.

A UK system would have to be pretty flexible with a lot of renewals since the country seems to be going in for education export in such a big way, and visiting students qualify for free healthcare. Since the border control doesn't track these students once they're in, you're effectively giving out healthcare for life without a stringent renewal process. More bureaucracy >

mikelincs

I had one as a child, and still do, I got one when registering with my health practice. People who are elegible for NHS treatment will get them, BUT, in the UK there is no requirement to carry any sort of ID, which to my mind is a great pity, and they should have introduced a mandatory ID ccard years ago, this would stop many of the current NHS, benefit and other sorts of fraud.

Oakvillian

I had (still have) an NHS card with my NHS number on it. Sprog #1, born in the UK, had a natty little plastic credit-card sized one issued at birth.

But apart from once when registering with a GP, I don't think I was ever asked for the number, or the card itself, when attending any medical or paramedical appointment.

Here in Ontario we're expected to present an OHIP card every time we visit the family doctor, or the hospital, or a lab, or any other appointment that is covered by or connected to the OHIP system.

The difference, of course, is that the NHS is directly funded, with staff being employees of the NHS. Here, doctors are self-employed and bill OHIP for every visit/procedure, so they have a built-in incentive to capture patient insurance information. It's a single-payer insurance model rather than a direct public funding model. Perhaps the NHS could implement some sort of hybrid system between the two - but I would like to see some numbers (presumably estimates, as self-evidently there are no complete statistics) on how much money is being lost to unrecovered billable fees vs the potential costs of implementing a system to recover those fees. It may turn out to be pretty marginal whether it's actually worthwhile, despite the Mail and Express headlines screaming about everyone coming over to the UK with the sole intention of becoming unwell....

Almost Canadian

I don't think that I was ever asked to produce mine either.

We still have our cards somewhere too.

We have to produce our Alberta Health Cards at every visit. While I agree that, historically, it may not have paid the NHS to require production of such cards, things may have changed. How are they able to bill the health systems in the EU for treatment provided by the NHS to EU citizens?

Atlantic Xpat

I still have a cardboard card with my NHS number on it somewhere. Presumably I could present myself at a NHS facility in the UK, give my parents address - or some other fictional address & my NHS number and get whatever care I need. Contrast that to Canada where we have to present MCP/Hospital cards at every visit to hospital (but not to our GP) and when I took my youngest to a walk in clinic in Ottawa last week I had to present it there as well. (Although I didn't have to pay, it'll get billed back from Ontario to Newfoundland automatically.)

A couple of years back taking same daughter to a GP in England when visiting family I did the honest thing and said we were from Canada. I had to pay both for the consultation & the prescription. I recall that the GP surgery were not set up at all to take payments so we had to pay cash. Both charges were reclaimed under my extended health care benefits plan at work.

MarkG

"Your papers, please."

That said, I did have a European health card when I was in the UK, as it was supposed to simplify getting treatment if I needed it while elsewhere in the EU. Never had to use it, though.

JonboyE

Everyone receives emergency care free on the NHS.

plasticcanuck

My GP, due to number of visits, doesn't require me to produce my OHIP card every time I visit (everyone there knows me by sight/name). Last year I voluntarily obtained the new OHIP card (photo ID). A week or so after my last GP visit I was phoned by the office asking if I had a new card as the claim for the visit had been declined.
There's been much reported OHIP fraud over the years (part of the reasoning for a new expirable photo ID card), so it's good to know that finally something's being done about it. The phasing in of the new card has begun. My wife, this week, received her notification/instructions to obtain her new card. If not obtained in time, her access to medical care will expire.

scrubbedexpat091

Only time I am actually asked for my PHN in BC is at the lab or hospital or a doctor I have not seen before. My GP's office never asks once your on file, but its a risk they take as if someone become not eligible, I would think MSP would decline the payment.

Maybe the NHS just needs to be more restrictive as to who can received covered care, maybe charge visitors to the UK for Emergency care and people will just need to buy travel insurance like people visiting Canada do.

Downside to that is not all hospitals in Canada will direct bill an insurance company and you pay at the time you receive the services and then seek reimbursement from the insurance company.

Whistler urgent care/ER does that, 500 + doctor+lab fees+ whatever else they charge a visitor for, and if you take an ambulance they charge a pretty premium too. Although residents have to pay for ambulance services as well as its not covered fully, but the resident rate is considerably less, $80 I believe it is.