Agreed. The gun lobby in both countries is very good at muddling the issue. They don't like it set out as a "how many dead children is gun freedom worth?" question and yet, as Souvy, points out, hardly anyone has a need for a gun, it's a matter of one set of freedoms, the ability to shoot things for fun, vs. another set, the opportunity to attend school unpunctured. Perhaps if the gun owners smoked and wore scent the wrath of the Canadian public would fall upon them.

Are children permitted to shoot at targets at shooting clubs in England?

Can anyone explain to me why a farmer has a greater need for a gun than any other profession?

I just don't see it. Do crops regularly attack people?

Well, you're point was how could it be legislated.

So in these two examples it could be decided by where they live permanently, so that camping doesn't count - in which case encountering animals is something considered in making their decision to go camping or
if there's a temporary need, they have a temporary permit for the duration of the temporary need.

I don't know.

Neither do I

There is also the point that people should not encroach into the natural habitats of wild animals and then carry guns with them as if it is their divine right to enjoy the outdoors and it is for their protection when they start ploughing these poor creatures with bullets.

Leave the hunting to licensed and trained professionals. The rest of you sicko's go and join a running club or gym where you can do something more constructive for your life.

Such as drinking?

More to farming then just crops, a lot of farmers raise animals to provide meat to us and many farms are not exactly in developed area's and wild animals attacking the farmers animals is a very real possibility and suppose the farmer needs some way to protect his animals from attack.

Not all farmers farm crops. Many farm animals that are prone to attack from wild beasties.

A fox will kill a coop full of chickens for the hell of it. And not even eat them. I'd say that is a fairly good reason for letting farmers have guns.

A bit of double posting going on there!

What animals attack what animals raised by farmers that cannot be prevented from killing by, for example, fencing?

I personally don't have any issues with self harm.

Still waiting for suggestions how we should deal with all the legally obtained arms out there should north america have a sudden personality change and decide to legislate against ownership?

No, nothing?

Seems to me there would suddenly be a lot more guns out there for the less responsible members of society to get their hands on.

Its all very well wringing our hands and shouting how guns are bad. Lets deal with the reality that there are a lot of gun owners out there owning a lot of guns. If you want to get rid of guns you have to round all those weapons up from people that probably dont want to give them up.

Suggestions? Anyone?

Have you ever seen say a large cattle ranch for example? Even with fencing cougars, bears, wolves and the like end up attacking the cattle.

People have more faith in fences then they should, a large wild animal looking to kill, isn't going to be stopped by a fence. Heck doesn't even have to be a large animal, more then one account of coyotes ending up in peoples fenced back yards, and attacking their pets, and sometimes children. If a coyote can get into a fenced back yard in an urban setting, a fence is certainly not going to stop a large predator from attacking.

Not to mention a large ranch is going to include territories of predators such a wolves, bears, cougars and so on.

In BC between private land, and crown land, there is over 20 million acres of land used for cattle, with the average ranch being over 1,000 acres, not talking small pieces of land here.

The largest cattle ranch in BC is 500,000 acres, you honestly think its feasible to keep predators out of that much land with a fence?

"BC is home to Canada's largest working cattle ranch. Douglas Lake Ranch has a cattle herd of approximately 20,000 head and a land base of more than 500,000 acres."

My girlfriends mom's house is fully fenced, and guess what, a bear was in her back yard recently to get to the trash can, climbed right over it.

I am not a gun advocate and see no need for the average person to have one, but I do realize that some people and professions have a valid need for guns.