Dog tails
 

It's occurred to me that I see an awful lot of dogs with docked tail around. Proper sized dogs - not the rodents-on-ropes.

What is the rationale behind this? to me it seems akin to lopping a limb off.

I seem to recall the practice is illegal in the UK

Does anyone know why Canadian dog owners would do this? Is there anyone out there with a tailess dog that can try and explain the rationale?

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They need them to make small boys. I'm surprised you didn't know this given you are supposedly able to teach science.

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Ah perhaps it is this lack of knowledge in the ways of all things canaian that makes it so tricky to get my qualifications and years ofvexperience recognized .

Now I understand all :rofl:

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Perhaps they're Jewish?

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Nah ,no skull cap . And they were out on the sabbath :)

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It was your reference to Canaian which suggested the possibility.

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:o too much communion wine I fear , sir ;)

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Tail docking and ear...whats it called "trimming" is still allowed in canada!! :( hence some dogs - Dobies with v sticky up pointy ears makes em look hard apparently = but can cause awful ear probs !

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We own a breed that is a working dog. As such their tails are docked shortly after birth as the chance of them 'working' is very high.

Apparently in this breed, in Europe there have been documented cases of the dog damaging it's tail both at home and in the field when it is it's normal length - personally I think this can happen with any dog with a high energy level. So I don't really see that as a viable arguement over there as why working breeds should have their tails docked.

I agree with it for working reasons, on breeds like springers that could get it caught in the brush, and even on non working dogs with super long hair (so the poo doesn't get stuck in it).

On all other breeds, I don't disagree but it's probably not necessary.

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Tail docking and ear cutting for cosmetic purposes is banned in Nova Scotia.

If you think tail docking is bad then how about declawing cats - not only do they remove the claws, they also remove the top bone of the paws so it is actually an amputation :frown:

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I have two rodents on ropes, one that I brough with me from Wales who has his tail, the other a rescue dog from Regina who doesn't. I wouldn't out of choice doc a dogs tail but it doesn't hurt Scoobie and that's all that matters.

I do however object to dogs being de-barked :eek::eek: I went to a yard sale last summer where there were two Shelties that had been de-barked - it was the most haunting thing I have ever heard, I had to leave the house becasue I couldn't listen to the "noise' :(

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OOOh I often threaten to tie my dogs vocal chords - didnt know it could really be done!! :blink:

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We have one cat that was declawed (he was a rescue cat and it was done before we got him) -the poor thing still tries to sharpen his claws :(

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Both my dogs have docked tails. It wasn't my choice - that's how they came. I don't know the rationale behind it at all - seems silly, and pointless to me.

But regardless, I love their little stumps as they wag - like a little helicopter trying to take off!

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That is exactly why there is history of dogs tails being docked, to prevent injury when they are working. Long haired doggies can get their poop shoots trimmed up to prevent danglies.

I have heard shelties trying to bark, poor things sound as though they are in pain but I suppose if the other option is the dog being sent to a shelter or being put down then being debarked is the lesser of those evils.

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Bollocks. How about training the animal properly in the first place so it doesn't bark. There is no possible excuse, ever, for maiming a dog for the pleasure of its owners. Sheer barbarism.

As for the tail docking, I suppose there are, very occasionally, circumstances where it would be appropriate for genuine working dogs. But the proportion of docked breeds who actually work is tiny. Kennel clubs should ban, forthwith, any docked animal from dog shows. That would stop unnecessary maiming overnight - it's the show breeders who perpetuate the nonsense that "it's for the dog's own good." If you don't like how your dog would look with a tail, get a different kind of dog, don't hack the bloody thing off.

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Bollocks? Now Oak, I'm sure you meant to say "My dear lady, I am frightfully sorry, however I quite disagree with your opinion". ;)

In any case, I can see no redemption for anyone that de-barks a dog. Utter cruelty and a disturbing display of disregard for a living thing.

A dog barking out of excitement is one thing, part and parcel of being a dog. A dog barking out of insecurity, anger or boredom is quite another matter and is generally the fault of the owner.

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Of course I did. Isn't that what I said? Oops.

However, the sentiment remains. I find I get riled surprisingly easily by those defending the aims of the Kennel Club and the practices undertaken by breeders to meet those aims. Not that they countenance de-barking, but the tail-docking and inbreeding in the name of "conformance" is all part and parcel of the same attitude, IMHO.

Of course, Piff Poff herself wasn't defending the practice in her post above - she just mentioned it and got my goat. Still, I just utterly fail to see how there is ever a justification for maiming a dog to keep it quiet. One wouldn't countenance doing that to a person, I suspect.

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Ah.

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Ah?

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Ah. In the middle of the night, with neighbours banging on the wall in protest at a still screaming person, I have countenanced chopping her head off.

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No I wasn't defending the actions of tail docking, just saying where the history of it came from - unless a dog is going to be used as a working dog then there is no point in docking tails.

Nor was I defending debarking, yes a dog should be trained properly not to bark excessively, excessively barking dogs drive me nuts, especially the one that lives diagonally opposite us that is bored stupid and barks all day long and all night sometimes too, do the owners call it in or tell it to shut up or take it for a walk? No. Actually I haven't seen it or heard it for a little while so it must have been sent to the rehoming facility or put down, they do seem to have a new one that barks now though.

Some breeds naturally bark all the time and some of them have a high pitched yap (shelties do) and that can get right on your neighbours nerves, when that happens and they report you, you can be forced to either surrender your dogs or have it debarked, these could be dogs that are inside barking at the post man, or the kid walking past the house, you may have a dog that barks at every little noise when your out - what are you going to do? Send it to the animal shelter to be later killed to make room for the next one? I do agree it is the owners fault and not the poor dogs.

I won't ever have to face that problem as I have a dog that barks when the door bell rings or if there is suspicious behaviour and he wants us to know about it, if he is outside, he gets called in straight away. He doesn't even bark at the postie anymore and he doesn't bark at anyone if we are not home. How much a dog barks instictively should be researched before you bring that adorable little bundle of fluff home.

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It's a tough one even with working dogs.

Apparently for it to be done with the least possible discomfort it needs to be carried out before they are 10 days old.

If you have a litter of working dogs this means you really need to get them done before a buyer even looks at the dog. Then who's to say that the dog will be a succesful worker anyway.

Tbh we bought our retard because a) we wanted one and b) if we decided to work him then it's the breed to get for what we wanted.

It's looking like at the moment that he won't ever be worked.

So if we were buying from a breeder who gave you the option upon choosing the dog, we'd have lopped his tail off for nothing :(. (Luckily / unluckily this was done before we even laid eyes on him) but how can anyone determine what something may or may not do in the future and base a decision like whacking off their tail on it.

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Docking, ear-lopping, shock collars, choke chains with barbs that stick in their neck, dogs left outside in all weathers, dogs left in cars, dogs tied up to trees in yards with no shelter and puppy farms - seen them all and all too common here in America :( - I was stunned when I first moved here.

We rescued a Weimararner from an unwanted litter - she still has her tail and I get thoroughly whipped with it all day long :) - I've even had some folk, wait for it, telling me they didn't realise that Weims came with a tail!

And now folks, you know why we mailed our PR applications off a few months ago.

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we have boxers and have never had one with a tail, i do know someone that had one with a tail and slammed it so hard against a wall when excited it broke the bone resulting in a painful amputation, this is also common in dobermans, i will always have boxers without tails, i have bred boxers and have always had them docked at 2 days old at my vets advice - see followin link as to reasons

http://www.cdb.org/boxer_tail.htm

docking is not illegal in the uk as long as done by a vet that is registerd with the docking council the breeder of docked breeds also has to be registered with the docking council - it is illegal for the breeder to do it!

the dogs have to be done before 3 days old, when there dew claws are also removed, (yet not one comment bout the dew claw removal i notice!)
i certainly dont agree with voicebox removal or ear cropping that is barbaric and certainly doesnt make the dog more attractive an i cant think of any medical reason why it would be done whatsoever!

what the kc should be dealing with is other dog issues due to their breed standards such as why the good ole british bulldog can now no longer give birth naturally!

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I disagree with any animal mutilation... I have a friend who had their cats declawed so they "don't wreck my leather couch" - I had to leave the room when she told me because I was so disgusted.

My dog, unfortunately, was already docked when we bought her, supposedly because their tails are whispy and curl like a pigs which is total bullsh*t. They have normal tails!

My poor wee lass has 2 inches of tailbone (it's supposed to be a minimum of 4") covered by a thin layer of skin and hair - the skin is so tight over the end of her stub that you can see the bone. Disgusting. When she tries to "wag" it, all you can see is a bit of hair movement. It wasn't obvious when we got her, just when she grew.

Needless to say if I ever get another dog or let her have puppies their tails will be left intact!

As to dew claws, she still has hers - I have to trim them every 4 weeks so they don't turn inwards and injure her (they get sharp!).

:(

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Why would you let her have puppies? Not a dig or anything, just curious.

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Many dog breeds are genetic dead ends - dog breeders have bred them into freaks. e.g. they selectively breed dogs to have such whippy tails that they have to chop them off to prevent injury and then act like they are doing the dog a favour ... amazing.

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Sorry, just in case is not a good enough reason to mutilate a dog, or cat in case of 'declawing'. My cat broke his leg the other day, should I have his other legs amputated just in case he injuries himself further and costs me another $1000?

I recognise that tail docking is partially traditional - but that's no excuse, at all. Neither is because that's how the kennel club recognise them.

All living creatures have accidents at some time - mutilation as prevention, tradition or even vanity is evil.

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this makes no sense - breeders selectivly breed to have a whippy tail jus to cut them off :blink: when i bred the only selection i did is the heart score - due to years of unnessesary interbreeding a boxers trait is aortic stenosis, so when im choosin a sire i make sure i have a certificate from a cardioligist confirmin the dogs heart condition because as with many other decent boxer breeders we're tryin to breed this problem out of the breed full stop, the tail is something that to me is not as important as this!

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I think this post sums up my feelings exactly.

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Banning the KC would be a huge step forward in improving the lives of all dog breeds. What they have done to breeds like the German Shepherd & English Bulldog is nothing short of criminal!

HH

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Because she is very cute, lol

Joking apart, I am in two minds about it. My dog has very intense "nurturing and mothering" instincts.. she has phantom pregnancies to an extent that she has milk, starts nesting, has "puppies" (her 2 favourite rubber toys), protects them and takes care of them (to the point whereby she won't leave them to eat) just as if they were real and alive. This goes on for 6-7 weeks, when she finally loses most interest and will leave them alone for hours (although she still has to have them with her at night).

I have done some investigation and whilst neutering her may alleviate this, there are no guarantees and she may continue behaving the same way regardless. Having a litter of puppies may also alleviate this, but no guarantees. Before anyone says "take her toys away, it will stop it" let me tell you we have tried that - it doesn't help at all, and she just cries and searches the house for hours looking for them before "adopting" anything that she can find and carry, be it a sock, shoe, book or whatever.

Part of me wants to let her be a Mum as she is so good at it.. the other part of me thinks of all the unwanted puppies out there.

I know you are going to ask why I haven't had her neutered already.. the answer being that a) she doesn't interact with male dogs at all, and so cannot get pregnant (I don't think she would let one near her, fussy mare) and b) I just don't have the spare cash to pay for it at the moment.

:unsure:

Re: Dog tails
 

completely agree, i think the kc have got a hell of a lot to answer for!!!!!

one of my girls was like this, we thought she would make such a good mum, we let her have a litter, and she was completely flummoxed as to what she had to do and she kept sitting on them an just didnt seem interested at all, after a couple of weeks she seemed fine an got on with it, we didnt breed from her again purely because she always looked really uncomfortable with the pups an she only had 6 to worry about, so didnt want to put her through it again, had her done and she never had another false preg.
the two girls i have now i let have a season then had them done an they've never had a false preg as yet and theyre 5 now.

i think physologically for her it would be kinder to either let her have a litter or get her "done", the fact she's having a false preg to the point where she producin milk must do her head in, an taking her "babies" away would be cruel in itself cos to her they're her real babies.
but as you say the amount of unwanted pups - depends on the age and breed - what is she?
isnt there any organisations that could help you get it done cheaper?

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How do you think dogs acquired those whippy tails in the first place? It wasn't through darwinian natural selection.

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I've got a boy dog and I got him fixed at 6 months, he got a really bad infection and was really poorly, we thought he was going to die, so no I'm not going ask why you haven't got her fixed already.

If you have a purebreed with papers and you carry out tests to make sure she has no genetical defect to pass on and you breed with a dog that has had the same tests, then the puppies will have the best chance in life that you could give them.

Our boy is purebred, we met both parents, there are however no papers, we have no idea if Henry will be prone to hip displaysia as he ages as the owners never hip scored their chows, we could only go by what we could see with our own eyes, we could see neither parent had entropian. We were happy to pay what we did for Henry considering the risk we were taking, if we were to buy from a registered breeder, I would expect all sorts of terms and conditions and health reports on both parents and preferably grandparents. Just something to bear in m ind if you do decide to breed.


I would love to be able to breed chows BUT i'm not sure if I could sell the babies:eek:

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I imagine you are referring to "Prong" or "Pinch" collars & used properly they are significantly less dangerous than "Choke Chains" (The clue is in the name.).
The pinch does not stick into the dogs neck, they aren't "barbs", they are rounded "prongs". When the dog pulls the prongs lay flat & gently pinch the dogs' neck, simulating the mother nipping to correct them. They should not be left on the dog & should only be used for walking. As soon as the dog has learnt basic walking skills they should be replaced by a conventional collar.
I was concerned about them but we have a rescued American Bulldog, she was so seriously abused before we got her (she was thrown out of a moving car on the highway because she refused to fight, they arrested the bastard that did it, he got a fine:frown:) that she was terrified of everything, the only way we could eventually begin to socialise her was with a pinch collar, had we been stupid enough to use a choke she would have killed herself on her first walk.
I was concerned about all of the reactionary bollocks I read about them so I adjusted one & put it around my (unfurred) neck in the store, they do not "stick in". Used properly (with a break away) they do considerably less damage to a dogs trachea than a rolled or thin leather collar.
We also have an English Bull Terrier & due to his nature a pinch collar would be totally unsuitable for him.

As for mutilating a dog because of some apocryphal cobblers about it being better for it, unless it's a guard dog in a rocking chair factory, I call bullshit.
Both of our dogs are spayed & neutered (one of each), there are enough unwanted dogs out there.
They also have their ears, tails & all of their toes..

Just a quick edit. There are collars that have triangular teeth inside (triple crown collars), these are utterly barbaric & shouldn't be confused with prong/pinch collars.

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i wasnt disputing how the dogs got the tails in the first place - you'd said breeders have bred these dogs to have thin wippy tails just to cut them off,

depending on the breed depends on whether or not any interest is shown in the tail at all, i dare say a breeder of a dog thats renowned for being complete and having a noticably curly tail for eg is going to follow the kc breed standard an make sure they breed a dog with said tail to gain points at dog show like crufts for eg

a breeder who breeds dogs that the tails are normally docked wont be too concerned what the tails like until such time that there is a complete ban.

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For the record, I view chopping any bits off dogs or children, except bollocks in the case of a dog, as barbaric.

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Why is that not barbaric too then?