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Does Canada need to change their healthcare method?

Does Canada need to change their healthcare method?

Old May 4th 2015, 9:10 pm
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Default Does Canada need to change their healthcare method?

Looking at this website from 2014, out of the 11 countries used, Canada ranks 10, just above the US overall care, but when it comes to breaking it down into individual sections, quality of care seems to be an issue in Canada.


Does Canada need to look into changing the system based on some of the countries models that seem to work better, but still better then the US messed up system.

Mirror, Mirror on the Wall, 2014 Update: How the U.S. Health Care System Compares Internationally - The Commonwealth Fund


I would never want a US system but some of the European systems maybe adapted to Canada?


I like the access I have in Canada, and I am glad to have the access, but I am less then satisfied with quality of care at times and frustration with the GP situation a good portion of Canada has.
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Old May 4th 2015, 10:14 pm
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Default Re: Does Canada need to change their healthcare method?

Originally Posted by Jsmth321
Looking at this website from 2014, out of the 11 countries used, Canada ranks 10, just above the US overall care, but when it comes to breaking it down into individual sections, quality of care seems to be an issue in Canada.


Does Canada need to look into changing the system based on some of the countries models that seem to work better, but still better then the US messed up system.

Mirror, Mirror on the Wall, 2014 Update: How the U.S. Health Care System Compares Internationally - The Commonwealth Fund


I would never want a US system but some of the European systems maybe adapted to Canada?


I like the access I have in Canada, and I am glad to have the access, but I am less then satisfied with quality of care at times and frustration with the GP situation a good portion of Canada has.
It's interesting that the UK system is rated very highly in this report. If you were to believe labour and the SNP the conservatives have destroyed the NHS over the last 5 years.

Canadians often seem to be very proud of their healthcare system but really are only aware of the US as a comparison. I suspect all of the european systems are significantly better. I'd consider the Alberta system to be rather patchy but fortunately to date haven't had to rely on it for anything serious.
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Old May 4th 2015, 10:17 pm
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Default Re: Does Canada need to change their healthcare method?

Originally Posted by jimf
It's interesting that the UK system is rated very highly in this report. If you were to believe labour and the SNP the conservatives have destroyed the NHS over the last 5 years.

Canadians often seem to be very proud of their healthcare system but really are only aware of the US as a comparison. I suspect all of the european systems are significantly better. I'd consider the Alberta system to be rather patchy but fortunately to date haven't had to rely on it for anything serious.
BC is patchy as well, some areas are good, some not so good.

I've got some potential issues, but the patchwork of GP's that I see, I don't think we are getting anywhere as despite electronic records and all working in the same practice, none seem to have the same views.

One says not to worry, another says possible problem, no clue who to believe.
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Old May 4th 2015, 10:37 pm
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Default Re: Does Canada need to change their healthcare method?

My husband certainly believes so..

In part he feels he says no to a lot of patients who want specific tests just because and without clinical reason. It seems to be a cultural thing and a lot of doctors just accommodate the requests rather than say no, you don't need this. The NHS is certainly more efficient in this regard.

However most folks in the UK do not know how good the system they have is.

I also think the way pts flip between walk in doctors and then their own FP is madness and should be stopped. If you are fortunate enough to have a family physician then they should be the only one you see other than out of hours etc.

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Old May 4th 2015, 10:49 pm
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Default Re: Does Canada need to change their healthcare method?

Originally Posted by Jsmth321
Looking at this website from 2014, out of the 11 countries used, Canada ranks 10, just above the US overall care, but when it comes to breaking it down into individual sections, quality of care seems to be an issue in Canada.


Does Canada need to look into changing the system based on some of the countries models that seem to work better, but still better then the US messed up system.

Mirror, Mirror on the Wall, 2014 Update: How the U.S. Health Care System Compares Internationally - The Commonwealth Fund




I would never want a US system but some of the European systems maybe adapted to Canada?


I like the access I have in Canada, and I am glad to have the access, but I am less then satisfied with quality of care at times and frustration with the GP situation a good portion of Canada has.

They need to allow the competition of private medicine in all areas, not just the nutty stuff. Of course competition is not the Canadian way.
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Old May 4th 2015, 10:54 pm
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Default Re: Does Canada need to change their healthcare method?

That report seems to focus on resource efficiency (value for money). We hear mixed reports on the NHS here in Britain.

UK cancer survival rates trail 10 years behind other European countries | Society | The Guardian
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Old May 4th 2015, 11:41 pm
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Default Re: Does Canada need to change their healthcare method?

These comparisons are silly because in the US and Canada healthcare varies considerably inside of the country. Hawaii compared to Mississippi and then compared to Puerto Rico is just massively different, and in Canada the way provinces go about healthcare also varies considerably from province to province.

You can't just pump out a 32-page PDF and rank those countries simplistically like that, it's not a statistically valid way of doing it.

I do always think though that the ultimate example of damning with faint praise is when someone says: "healthcare is better in Canada than in the US".

They should translate it into Latin and put it on the passports, it's the first thing out of most people's mouths when the subject of the US comes up.
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Old May 4th 2015, 11:46 pm
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Default Re: Does Canada need to change their healthcare method?

Originally Posted by jimf
I'd consider the Alberta system to be rather patchy but fortunately to date haven't had to rely on it for anything serious.
Yeah, it is difficult to get a handle on it. Sometimes it's outstanding, sometimes it's terrible, sometimes it's so-so. Going by what's in the paper though I'm glad I don't have cancer.

The basic problem is getting a GP.

The way I look at it is, at least you don't pay high taxes here, so when it seems to be crap you don't feel like you got ripped off.
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Old May 5th 2015, 12:28 am
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Default Re: Does Canada need to change their healthcare method?

There's very little accountability in Canada. Doctors are self employed mostly, a few are epmployed by the hospital but mostly they come and go and are answerable to themselves or the MAC, Medical Advisory Committee, should anyone chose to complain. Often they are paid by numbers of patients seen, number of tests done, in radiology it's the number of views done per examination. So we take twice as many views as we did in the UK. Often done because the patient wants it done. In the UK radiographers have a duty to refuse to perform any xray they feel is unnecessary.

The system here is very much like the US one where fees for services are claimed from the insurer, the insurer being the government. This means there is a whole tier devoted to billing and claiming fees. The same as in private medicine in the UK

I don't find much continuity of care. Medical records are scattered between GPs, hospitals, clinics.

Individually I find the same range of personalities and skills as in the UK but to me it seems hard to move forward, to implement change.
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Old May 5th 2015, 1:17 am
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Default Re: Does Canada need to change their healthcare method?

Originally Posted by bats;11636983[B
]There's very little accountability in Canada. Doctors are self employed mostly, a few are epmployed by the hospital but mostly they come and go and are answerable to themselves or the MAC, Medical Advisory Committee, should anyone chose to complain.[/B] Often they are paid by numbers of patients seen, number of tests done, in radiology it's the number of views done per examination. So we take twice as many views as we did in the UK. Often done because the patient wants it done. In the UK radiographers have a duty to refuse to perform any xray they feel is unnecessary.

The system here is very much like the US one where fees for services are claimed from the insurer, the insurer being the government. This means there is a whole tier devoted to billing and claiming fees. The same as in private medicine in the UK

I don't find much continuity of care. Medical records are scattered between GPs, hospitals, clinics.

Individually I find the same range of personalities and skills as in the UK but to me it seems hard to move forward, to implement change.
I am surprised given your work your lack of insight in this issue. Of course doctors are accountable, they are answerable to the Provincial Medical Colleges and quite rightly have to respond to complaints whether at an office level or higher. Your comment concerning getting paid for investigations as I would hope that you would know is most certainly not true. Yes, it is a fee per service system but I personally,as do my colleagues,assess, investigate and subsequently treat 100% in the interests of our patients, not our bank balance.
Please present facts and not presumptions.
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Old May 5th 2015, 1:36 am
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Default Re: Does Canada need to change their healthcare method?

Originally Posted by Stinkypup
I am surprised given your work your lack of insight in this issue. Of course doctors are accountable, they are answerable to the Provincial Medical Colleges and quite rightly have to respond to complaints whether at an office level or higher. Your comment concerning getting paid for investigations as I would hope that you would know is most certainly not true. Yes, it is a fee per service system but I personally,as do my colleagues,assess, investigate and subsequently treat 100% in the interests of our patients, not our bank balance.
Please present facts and not presumptions.
I think to be fair to Bats, my husband has come across some doctors who he believes performed for example unnecessary lung function tests on every pt who presented when there was some sort of kickback/private fee involved. SP you are a British trained doctor and maybe practice medicine a little differently to some not all. I think there are some who are more motivated by money than others.
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Old May 5th 2015, 1:50 am
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Default Re: Does Canada need to change their healthcare method?

I am not a fond lover of anecdotes and generalities TT- my points are made from a position of working amongst 100 doctors in the area from all specialties. Of course there are the rotten apples, there are in any profession but Bats comments were general and in my opinion offensive as well as inaccurate

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Old May 5th 2015, 2:05 am
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Default Re: Does Canada need to change their healthcare method?

Originally Posted by Stinkypup
I am not a fond lover of anecdotes and generalities TT- my points one made from a position of working amongst 100 doctors in the area off all specialties. Of course there are the rotten apples, there are in any profession but Bats comments were general and in my opinion offensive as well as inaccurate
Fair enough!
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Old May 5th 2015, 3:36 am
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Default Re: Does Canada need to change their healthcare method?

My experience of the Canadian health care system after almost 47 years here, from the patient's point of view ...........


I couldn't have received better care anywhere!

I've had excellent Family doctors, all of them Canadian trained, all who took great care of their patients, and were concerned as much with prevention as with curing once developed.

The first GP I had, insisted on everyone in the family having an annual checkup ........... he maintained that he couldn't know whether a child was sick if he didn't know what the child was like when healthy.

The second insisted on giving every male patient the PSA test ............ admitting that it was not infallible, but it was the best test there was. He just used to tick the box on the form that said there was a reason, and so it was covered by the provincial scheme!

Most of the nurses I've seen have also been good ....... with one or two exceptions

As an example of the care I have had ...............

1995, annual mammogram at a screening clinic, 5 days later sent to the mammography clinic for another mammogram and biopsy, 1 week later seeing the specialist, 1 week later having a lumpectomy, 2 weeks later having a mastectomy. No further treatment required.

Total time elapsed from first mammogram to the end was just under 6 weeks ......... and I had been assessed by one of the top radiologists and one of the two top breast surgeons in the city.

I don't think that I could have got better or faster care

Now, we go to the Family Practice Clinic connected to the Medical Faculty ...... where newly minted doctors do their 2 year residency. They have a link with the university hospital, so we get x-rays and lab tests almost immediately



Yes, there could be improvements ..............

...... we need more doctors ....... but where are to get them??? Every country is looking for doctors, and every country is recruiting from every other country!

...... same for nurses

...... more money could be put into the health care system .......... but maybe we should be questioning some of the procedures that are now carried out?

...... there could be more procedures done privately, over and above the orthopedic surgeries. Incidentally, Workers Compensation cases do seem to get priority over a person opting to go private.

But there seems to be a political aversion to allowing private clinics to operate.


I do well remember one experience from before I left England though ........... in one of those huge wards of 30 or more patients, having a surgical check-up which was done by a Resident because the surgeon had a "sore throat and cannot conduct operations". Women in the bed across from me in for an internal exam. Surgeon came to see her to give her the result of her exam.

"Mrs xxxx, you have a cancer, and it must be operated on as soon as possible. I can operate in 3 months on the NHS, but if you want to go private, I can do it in my Clinic in 3 days time" ...........

and he still allegedly had a sore throat

She was lucky, they managed to find the money!

I would hate to see the same or similar scenario played out here
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Old May 5th 2015, 6:43 am
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Default Re: Does Canada need to change their healthcare method?

Originally Posted by Tirytory
I also think the way pts flip between walk in doctors and then their own FP is madness and should be stopped. If you are fortunate enough to have a family physician then they should be the only one you see other than out of hours etc.
I agree, the issue is though GP's in this area anyhow have so many patients because there is a lack of them, it takes weeks to get an appointment, so a walk in is the only feasible method for the patient to access a doctor.

For things that can wait, I agree wait for your GP if you can, although waits can be long and when worried about something waiting 4+weeks isn't ideal.

Even when I make an appointment with my GP, doesn't mean I will even see him, tomorrow I have an appt with my GP but I am seeing another doctor within the office since my doctor is unavailable now which happens a lot.

One issue that significantly cuts down on available GP hours is the need for them to cover the ER and Walk In clinic, all the local GP's rotate through both cutting down on their available hours at their office, which also leads to patients going to the ER to see their GP.

My appointment for tomorrow, was made mid-March, there was a 6 week wait which is the norm around here.

As for tests, I only ask the doctor for one, and only because he forgets I need it 2 times per year.

I call my doctor the gooogle doc, chances are he has to access google during your appointments...lol

There was an article in the Vancouver media recently about a man with cancer on his nose, his GP didn't diagnose it correctly, then a series of errors by doctors led to this poor man's nose being taken over by cancer, the health authority had no clue about his condition and the cancer agency apparently forgot about him.

Things like that are what scare me.


I do wish doctor would call about test results, they never do, the only reason I knew I needed to see a doctor about test results done back in February is because I got a call from the walk in clinic telling me I needed to see my GP to discuss the results a few weeks later.

I already knew what the results where, but I can't decipher what the results mean other then its not within the range considered normal and has an H next to it which I presume means high, google brings up everything from minor things to certain death and everything in between which is why I tend to never google medical issues.


I really liked my GP in Vancouver, she never rushed you, always took the time to listen and then exam and discuss if necessary, my current GP rushes in, doesn't appear to be listening, rarely does an exam, and just wants to go onto the next patient.

I still have horrible abdominal pains and only getting worse, but its been an uphill battle with the doctor.

There is one really awesome doctor in town, had her in the ER when I had heart stuff going on, very good doctor. I am on her wait list so hopefully someday she will accept patients.

My GP is nice, I just don't have the most confidence in him or his abilities.

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