Dave Lee Travis
Jan 21st 2014, 10:12 pm
#76
limey party pooper
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,982
Re: Dave Lee Travis
[QUOTE=PeterF;11090187][QUOTE=bats;11090093]
FFS I HAVE NEVER SAID IT WAS OK, I CANNOT HELP IT IF YOUR A BLIND IDIOT WHO CANNOT READ.
My whole point was.
1. It was a long time ago.
2. Nobody was killed or raped.
3. Proving will be difficult after such a long time (the act itself would be difficult to prove if no-one saw it).
4. At that time in the 70's, as bad as it would have been to the person, society as a whole did not treat such things as seriously as they do today.
5. Because of 4, the perpetrator would probably have not been chastised against such behaviour (at the early stages even before it got as far as it did) which may have stopped it getting any further.
6. It is costing a lot of money and no good will come of it now.
And no, no-one of authority ever fiddled with my willy when I was young, although I was the recipient of an unwanted attempted gay fondle, which even in my drunken state I fought my way out of. Has it given me nightmares all my life, absolutely not.
If he (DLT) had forced himself on someone and attempted rape, then I would see the need, for someone acting the dick and thinking himself free to touch where he wanted at a time when he was allowed to get away with it, no, I don't see the need for it now (for the 6 reasons above and given time I could probably think of more).
So one final time NO I DO NOT THINK IT WAS OK!! rightio?
Everyone loves? Don't be too sure of that.
So to sum up. Grabbing breasts and touching knickers are assaults that can be overlooked and when someone touched your willy you weere big and brave a fought him off.
FFS I HAVE NEVER SAID IT WAS OK, I CANNOT HELP IT IF YOUR A BLIND IDIOT WHO CANNOT READ.
My whole point was.
1. It was a long time ago.
2. Nobody was killed or raped.
3. Proving will be difficult after such a long time (the act itself would be difficult to prove if no-one saw it).
4. At that time in the 70's, as bad as it would have been to the person, society as a whole did not treat such things as seriously as they do today.
5. Because of 4, the perpetrator would probably have not been chastised against such behaviour (at the early stages even before it got as far as it did) which may have stopped it getting any further.
6. It is costing a lot of money and no good will come of it now.
And no, no-one of authority ever fiddled with my willy when I was young, although I was the recipient of an unwanted attempted gay fondle, which even in my drunken state I fought my way out of. Has it given me nightmares all my life, absolutely not.
If he (DLT) had forced himself on someone and attempted rape, then I would see the need, for someone acting the dick and thinking himself free to touch where he wanted at a time when he was allowed to get away with it, no, I don't see the need for it now (for the 6 reasons above and given time I could probably think of more).
So one final time NO I DO NOT THINK IT WAS OK!! rightio?
So to sum up. Grabbing breasts and touching knickers are assaults that can be overlooked and when someone touched your willy you weere big and brave a fought him off.
Jan 22nd 2014, 12:04 am
#77
BE Forum Addict
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,348
Re: Dave Lee Travis
Peter, there's something quite major that you seem to have missed here. There are at least 2-3 people posting on this thread who have pretty personal experiences of this kind of assault. Groping, molesting etc. Either them, or someone close to them.
What you are essentially saying to us is that we should basically suck it up and get over it and do nothing as it was quite a while ago now and really shouldn't matter anymore, and probably shouldn't have mattered in the first place because societal attitudes were different then, even though the law was not. Do you have any idea how hurtful that would be? I'm guessing not. At least I'm hoping not.
Here's another aspect for you, some 'what ifs' that I think are worth considering here. Along with the fear of not being believed, along with the fear of losing a job, or repercussions, along with the fear of being made out to be the one to blame in court, here are some other things. What if it doesn't even hit you right away that this thing has happened? What if, at the time, you brush it off, then realise several years down the line that this one act caused you pain, irrevocably altered who you are? What if the perpetrator threatened you? What if they actually made you feel really really special, that they really cared about you, and that was why you couldn't tell anyone and spoil it? What if them telling you those things then made you go out and try to repeat the behaviour with other unsuitable, potentially abusive men, because that was what you thought love and affection meant? Can you imagine where that could lead? Yes, potentially to 30-40 years of hurt, more pain, physical and emotional! What if the assault left you unable to connect properly with potential/current partners, what if it made you scared of physical touch and ruined otherwise good relationships? These things can take years to sink in. Sometimes it takes hearing the stories of others before you realise that, yes, that was what happened. Does that make the impact of them any less? Absolutely not.
It is rarely a simple case of a squeezed bum on the way past, and even if it were, it could still lead to the above scenarios that I've written here. Please show a little sensitivity to those who have been hurt by the actions of others. They cannot dismiss it as easily as you may think.
What you are essentially saying to us is that we should basically suck it up and get over it and do nothing as it was quite a while ago now and really shouldn't matter anymore, and probably shouldn't have mattered in the first place because societal attitudes were different then, even though the law was not. Do you have any idea how hurtful that would be? I'm guessing not. At least I'm hoping not.
Here's another aspect for you, some 'what ifs' that I think are worth considering here. Along with the fear of not being believed, along with the fear of losing a job, or repercussions, along with the fear of being made out to be the one to blame in court, here are some other things. What if it doesn't even hit you right away that this thing has happened? What if, at the time, you brush it off, then realise several years down the line that this one act caused you pain, irrevocably altered who you are? What if the perpetrator threatened you? What if they actually made you feel really really special, that they really cared about you, and that was why you couldn't tell anyone and spoil it? What if them telling you those things then made you go out and try to repeat the behaviour with other unsuitable, potentially abusive men, because that was what you thought love and affection meant? Can you imagine where that could lead? Yes, potentially to 30-40 years of hurt, more pain, physical and emotional! What if the assault left you unable to connect properly with potential/current partners, what if it made you scared of physical touch and ruined otherwise good relationships? These things can take years to sink in. Sometimes it takes hearing the stories of others before you realise that, yes, that was what happened. Does that make the impact of them any less? Absolutely not.
It is rarely a simple case of a squeezed bum on the way past, and even if it were, it could still lead to the above scenarios that I've written here. Please show a little sensitivity to those who have been hurt by the actions of others. They cannot dismiss it as easily as you may think.
Last edited by Dashie; Jan 22nd 2014 at 12:07 am.
Jan 22nd 2014, 1:07 am
#78
limey party pooper
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,982
Re: Dave Lee Travis
Peter, there's something quite major that you seem to have missed here. There are at least 2-3 people posting on this thread who have pretty personal experiences of this kind of assault. Groping, molesting etc. Either them, or someone close to them.
What you are essentially saying to us is that we should basically suck it up and get over it and do nothing as it was quite a while ago now and really shouldn't matter anymore, and probably shouldn't have mattered in the first place because societal attitudes were different then, even though the law was not. Do you have any idea how hurtful that would be? I'm guessing not. At least I'm hoping not.
Here's another aspect for you, some 'what ifs' that I think are worth considering here. Along with the fear of not being believed, along with the fear of losing a job, or repercussions, along with the fear of being made out to be the one to blame in court, here are some other things. What if it doesn't even hit you right away that this thing has happened? What if, at the time, you brush it off, then realise several years down the line that this one act caused you pain, irrevocably altered who you are? What if the perpetrator threatened you? What if they actually made you feel really really special, that they really cared about you, and that was why you couldn't tell anyone and spoil it? What if them telling you those things then made you go out and try to repeat the behaviour with other unsuitable, potentially abusive men, because that was what you thought love and affection meant? Can you imagine where that could lead? Yes, potentially to 30-40 years of hurt, more pain, physical and emotional! What if the assault left you unable to connect properly with potential/current partners, what if it made you scared of physical touch and ruined otherwise good relationships? These things can take years to sink in. Sometimes it takes hearing the stories of others before you realise that, yes, that was what happened. Does that make the impact of them any less? Absolutely not.
It is rarely a simple case of a squeezed bum on the way past, and even if it were, it could still lead to the above scenarios that I've written here. Please show a little sensitivity to those who have been hurt by the actions of others. They cannot dismiss it as easily as you may think.
What you are essentially saying to us is that we should basically suck it up and get over it and do nothing as it was quite a while ago now and really shouldn't matter anymore, and probably shouldn't have mattered in the first place because societal attitudes were different then, even though the law was not. Do you have any idea how hurtful that would be? I'm guessing not. At least I'm hoping not.
Here's another aspect for you, some 'what ifs' that I think are worth considering here. Along with the fear of not being believed, along with the fear of losing a job, or repercussions, along with the fear of being made out to be the one to blame in court, here are some other things. What if it doesn't even hit you right away that this thing has happened? What if, at the time, you brush it off, then realise several years down the line that this one act caused you pain, irrevocably altered who you are? What if the perpetrator threatened you? What if they actually made you feel really really special, that they really cared about you, and that was why you couldn't tell anyone and spoil it? What if them telling you those things then made you go out and try to repeat the behaviour with other unsuitable, potentially abusive men, because that was what you thought love and affection meant? Can you imagine where that could lead? Yes, potentially to 30-40 years of hurt, more pain, physical and emotional! What if the assault left you unable to connect properly with potential/current partners, what if it made you scared of physical touch and ruined otherwise good relationships? These things can take years to sink in. Sometimes it takes hearing the stories of others before you realise that, yes, that was what happened. Does that make the impact of them any less? Absolutely not.
It is rarely a simple case of a squeezed bum on the way past, and even if it were, it could still lead to the above scenarios that I've written here. Please show a little sensitivity to those who have been hurt by the actions of others. They cannot dismiss it as easily as you may think.
Jan 22nd 2014, 5:06 pm
#79
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,124
Re: Dave Lee Travis
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25842270
The woman, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, ...
why on earth not?
The woman, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, ...
why on earth not?
Jan 22nd 2014, 5:14 pm
#80
Moderαtor Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 30,768
Re: Dave Lee Travis
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25842270
The woman, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, ...
why on earth not?
The woman, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, ...
why on earth not?
Jan 22nd 2014, 5:25 pm
#82
Moderαtor Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 30,768
Re: Dave Lee Travis
this in particular.
Putting the accusers in the spotlight is going to further discourage people from coming forward, as if having to relive the experience and face your assaulter in court and have his lawyer rip into your character and actions isnt enough of an impediment to people coming forward in trials of the nature in the first place.
Last edited by iaink; Jan 22nd 2014 at 5:28 pm.
Jan 22nd 2014, 5:26 pm
#83
BE Forum Addict
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,348
Re: Dave Lee Travis
FFS, please read my post above. It doesn't matter how long ago it was, it still takes a lot of bravery to come forward. She may well be ashamed of what was done to her, it isn't unusual. There is also the possibility that her nearest and dearest don't actually know what happened, and she doesn't want them to. She might also not be ready to tell this story to her boss, friends, colleagues, children...
As to why he was identified, I have no idea, and I wouldn't have cared if he had remained anonymous until proven guilty, but can we please stop picking on the victims! Is it any wonder that they're afraid to come forward really?
As to why he was identified, I have no idea, and I wouldn't have cared if he had remained anonymous until proven guilty, but can we please stop picking on the victims! Is it any wonder that they're afraid to come forward really?
Jan 22nd 2014, 7:01 pm
#84
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,124
Re: Dave Lee Travis
Im not going to spell it out again. perhaps read some of my posts on that subject in this very thread.
this in particular.
Putting the accusers in the spotlight is going to further discourage people from coming forward, as if having to relive the experience and face your assaulter in court and have his lawyer rip into your character and actions isnt enough of an impediment to people coming forward in trials of the nature in the first place.
this in particular.
Putting the accusers in the spotlight is going to further discourage people from coming forward, as if having to relive the experience and face your assaulter in court and have his lawyer rip into your character and actions isnt enough of an impediment to people coming forward in trials of the nature in the first place.
Jan 22nd 2014, 7:08 pm
#85
BE Forum Addict
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,348
Re: Dave Lee Travis
Why wouldn't they be? Please see my last post, I don't see how any of that would be expected to change?
Jan 22nd 2014, 7:09 pm
#86
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: South of Calgary
Posts: 13,375