COVID is making me hate Canada
 

Honestly, the amount of misinformation, lies and garbage shared on Facebook by Canadians about the COVID vaccine is making me sick.

People share news from fake news sites, chastise others for vaccinating their kids (“oh those poor babies!”) bring up unverifiable data points like VAERS and overall the attitude is childish spoilt and bratty. Basically finding any excuse to not do their part and get vaccinated.

The worst seems to be people from rural or suburban areas. It’s like the suburbs turn people into adult children. Not just in this case either but whining about all sorts of things.

I know it’s not all Canadians but it’s sickening seeing other countries that have more of a social/collective conscience getting it dealt with while individualistic selfish Canada people just chant “my rights!” while this nightmare pandemic drags on.

Apologies for the rant, but man, it’s super frustrating. We’re going to need booster shots every year if this carries on.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

Are you sure they are Canadians that are doing this? We see it here in NZ too, every news article and pro-vax posts are being bombarded by more than a reasonable share of this nonsense in comments; Facebook and other Social media platforms have been inundated with orchestrated attacks and floods of posts from anti-vax 'influencers'.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

Same in France, weekly marches against the 'vax passports' over here. So seems it is a common thread now days.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

It’s everywhere, not just specific to Canada. I think in general Canada is pretty good for vaccine uptake. I do live in a white rural enclave in Ontario, and I think there is a feeling that COVID isn’t that bad, mainly because it hasn’t impacted us much. Although the reason that it hasn’t impacted us much seems lost on people..

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

Same sh1t everywhere. Definitely in the UK. Maybe we also get more anti-vaxer sentiment bleeding across from the US. Best is to ignore it/don't engage.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

That's good advice generally. Alas, I recently discovered that a someone I work with isn't vaccinated (she was unable to attend a corporate event) and now I a) question her judgement in other areas and b) assume she's on borrowed time in her position and is to be worked around. It's the same feeling I had with colleagues who were charged with serious criminal offences or became religious to the point of no longer speaking to women in the workplace; clock ticking for them. Not getting vaccinated is an extreme anti-team position, I don't see how an employer can live with that even if there's a technical legal loophole allowing it.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

It is a dilemma for certain. I'll accept those that cannot be vaxed but have little interest in those that will not. It's not been a problem at work thus far but I have deleted connections off LI who have espoused/promoted antivaxer views. If you wont do a) whats right for you as an individual and b) what's right for society as a whole and you are unswayed by science but swayed by facebook and you auntie Beryl, then perhaps your judgement in matters of business is less than sound,

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

Same here in the US. I have to live with a man, who is also Canadian, who refuses to the vaccine and will pontificate about the medical hazards of it and government conspiracy involved. And it isn't just him. My son-in-law is not vaccinated and he will not allow the kids to be vaccinated. A good friend is so vocal about her anti-vax theories that she's been banned from FB. And these are just personal experiences.

And yes, I have been fully vaccinated and will get the booster when available. I can think for myself.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

Quite. The world isn't short of accountants, the way that business seems to go is that big firms are always shedding new ones who've done their five years of post-university slog and now want a living wage. They're highly replaceable, so it's an odd trade for boat rocking.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

Well we will have to see if the Provinces will stick to their guns or keep extending deadlines to get vaxxed. Quebec has already extended their date for healthcare and social workers.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

I suppose one kind of accepts it on Facebook - not that I go there - although FB says they try to do something about it. But it's other places that annoy me.

On the CBC site at the end of each update, you can look over the comments and while they're not full of rabidly anti-vax comments there's a lot of no worse than flu, this year's flu, natural immunity better than vaccine, they are not vaccines, masks do nothing and so on.

People will mention a study for example that contrasted a masked mandated area with a non mask mandated area to show that Covid cases were little different. But it turns out that research has long been scrapped because at the time there was so little covid about in those areas that people could have been breathing all over each other without it making a difference.

Or you'd read that Professor someonerother has found whatever the claim is with an instruction to google it.
So I've googled it and that is indeed the claim going around under that name. But then you notice the name is wrong. Someone hasn't done "their own" research on it after all, they've simply read something - probably on FB - and they've done a copy/paste, including getting the name wrong, and just spread it aroud on their own account or blogged it somewhere else.

The second thing is that Professor correctname is already on record saying that was not his conclusion at all.

Now I find out with a bit of simple googling in a minute or so that this is misinformation. After a couple of days you see the same old familiar names making the same sorts of comments. I really don't see why someone at CBC isn't checking themselves - there is a reporting system - and not warning the culprit, removing the comments or identifying them as false and ultimately blocking the poster of those comments.

If the comments were identified as false, other readers on the site could see that and not only discover the truth without putting their own effort in but they could also see who the liars were and pay them no attention the next time they claim something.

In a perfect world the host of such comments could advise people to double check and be wary of claims made that are only sourced on social media.

It's really not much different to warnings about email/telephone scams.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

I know it’s not all Canadians but it’s sickening seeing other countries that have more of a social/collective conscience getting it dealt with while individualistic selfish Canada people just chant “my rights!” while this nightmare pandemic drags on.


Try living in Italy right now when protests are all over because we have a Green Pass. First it was Green Pass to get into inside places likes bars and restaurants ...... now it's' about keeping your job open and getting suspended from work.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

I got vaccinated to get the green pass to travel and go about my life...I don't think covid is as bad as "they" say, and clearly given Ontario's numbers the vaccine is not as effective as claimed. I support the vaccine but clearly it is not a fix-all solution, and I don't agree with it being mandated. People should have the right to choose. I chose to get vaccinated but I support people's choice to not get vaccinated also.

People can whine about how it's not a mandate but if people are being threatened with losing their jobs, and therefore their livelihood, if they do not get it then to me that is a mandate / use of force.

As said, anti-vax people are everywhere, not just Canada. If random people's opinions are making you hate a country then you should really re-evaluate your priorities. I have people in my life who are not vaccinated and it has no bearing on whether I hang out with them or associate with them. I really just don't care. Get vaccinated, don't get vaccinated...it doesn't affect me. I have my opinions and hunches but i'm not really qualified to say what is and isn't, and I don't really care to research the piss out of it. Keep calm and carry on and all that. And besides, I don't think it is mine or anyone else's business to ask people whether they are vaccinated or not. It's private information.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

An argument referencing "They" is on par with "do your own research, sheeple".I won't engage with you on your position except to say the the selfishness and ignorance is at least outweighed by your decision to get vaccinated. I do agree that antivax opinions are no reason to hate a country through.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

There are people worldwide spouting the same.. it's not only in Canada.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

Bollocks to that, Vaccines work when everyone has been vaccinated. People who choose not to be vaccinated need not be put to death but they should not leave their houses.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

I'm sure you don't mean "they" in the same way the conspiracy nutters do, Gozit, but that's the kind of statement those people seize on.

I think the vaccine is doing exactly as it was suggested it would do in massively reducing serous outcomes. It was never suggested as a fix-all solution but when you regularly see numbers like 75-85% of people in hospital are unvaxxed and then consider that the vaccinated are the greater proportion of the population you can see the difference it makes.
Global News 29th Sept has Ontario's unvaccinated as being 60 times more likely to end up in ICU than vaccinated.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

But, if they are aware of that figure and they choose not to get vaccinated, that's a matter for them, isn't it?
Unless they are specifically preventing you from doing something, what difference does it make to you?

The thing that really pisses me off about the current situation is the complete nonsense that, if you are vaccinated, you pose no risk to others whereas, if you are not vaccinated, people shouldn't come within 50 feet of you. Both groups are as just as likely to be carriers particularly when it is considered that only those that are vaccinated are able to attend events where they are likely to come into contact with lots of other people (nightclubs, concerts, sporting events).

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

Well it isn't only a matter for them if it affects everyone (in different ways) but that wasn't what I was saying anyway. I was making a similar point to that made by Atlantic Xpat about the "they" aspect.

It's like glass half empty/half full. Some of those unvaccinated ("the vax has a chip in it") will never want to do it but there are those who may be unsure because of the "it's not tested properly" or "natural immunity is better than vaccine immunity" (as we discussed in the other thread).

Of that latter group, which is more likely to encourage them, reading that they are 60 times more likely to avoid the need for Intensive Care if vaccinated or claims that the vaccine isn't that effective?

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

There seems to be evidence that vaccines do have some impacts in reducing (but not eliminating) transmission. But they are not the silver bullet in terms of once you are vaxed you can’t infect others.

So, some benefits have f being vaxed in terms of reducing spread.

The impact of vaccine mandates will hopefully be to increase the percentage of the population who are vaxed. That’s a good thing in terms of reducing impact of the disease to individuals and the healthcare system in general.

What difference do the unvaccinated make to me? For much of the time not much but when I, or someone important to me need a hospital bed, a healthcare system not on its knees. And ICU bed, a routine surgery that hasn’t been postponed because the hospital is full of unvaccinated Covid patients? Well then it matters a lot.

The personal freedom/liberty argument at its heart is selfishness. “You can’t force me to get vaccinated, it’s my right not to get it”, really means I don’t give an <expletive> for others. If to get over that selfishness people need to be inconvenienced to the point that the easiest thing is to go get jabbed, then bring it on.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

That information is already available to them, as every news report makes such statements.

I believe that the real issue here is trust in the system. When attendees at a restaurant are required to have the vaccine but those that work there don't, that makes no sense and, I am sure, leads some to believe that the powers that be are not serious about everyone getting the vaccine, otherwise such people would have to have had it too. The firefighters' union in Calgary is suing the City arguing that stating that all firefighters have to be vaccinated, or they do not get paid, adds flame to the fire. When nurses are refusing to be vaccinated that causes concern too.

I'd suggest that it also doesn't help that society has been told, "Do this, and all will be well" when that is shown to be incorrect doesn't help either. More than a third of the new cases in Alberta are those with one or two shots

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

I don't believe that we disagree about most of what you have stated there. The argument being used against those not vaccinated could be used against those that smoke, drink to excess, are obese, are addicts too. Alberta has the capacity for 1000 ICU beds. If hasn't approached such numbers at any time.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...3a7e1b0fd6.png
A significant difference between vaccinated and unvaxed hospitalisation of COVID cases in Alberta

And regarding COVID spread if one is less likely to become infected then it follows that your less likely to infect others.

So if you chose not to have the vaccine then the considerate thing to do is to stay away from others.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

Please provide me the evidence that supports your assertion that those vaccinated are less likely to become infected as, as far as I can tell, such evidence doesn't exist. However, I am more than happy to be corrected.

I said new cases. Here is what you should have posted had you wished to show that what I stated was bullshit: COVID-19 Alberta statistics | alberta.ca

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

High COVID hospitalizations have led to a not so small number of surgeries and other outpatient services being cancelled, so its easy to say the unvaccinated know the risk, it doesn;t affect me or anyone else, well yes it does, if your one of those who need surgery or a colonoscopy or an MRI that has been cancelled you may feel differently, or if your vaccinated in Northern BC and can get timely healthcare because the smaller northern hospitals are so overwhlemed with COVID patients, its gotten so bad up northern BC (lowest vaccination rates overall in BC) they have had to fly COVID patients to Vancouver, Surrey, Victoria area hospitals, which now have led to more cancelled healthcare services for non-COVID patients, so now unvaccinated from hundreds of km away are affecting people who need healthcare in the high vaccination areas.

It's a Domino affect.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

When you are reduced to Whataboutitism, then I rather think you've lost the argument. I think you've said you've already been vaccinated. If so, then good for you, and try and build your intellectual strawman against mandatory vaccination all you like - but you are wrong.
If you are not, then do the world a favour and do the right thing.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

You can't just say the information is available and ignore the differences in the way presented.
It's still a case of what gets paid attention to. Another good example on CBC for New Brunswick.
Headline - one in five deaths were people vaccinated.

The information about 75% of people vaccinated is there, as is the 80% of people in hospital are unvaccinated and the 80% of deaths are unvaccinated - hence the 20% or one in five.
You don't need to be a mathematician to see that if by far the greater number of people are vaccinated and that the vast majority of those suffering are not vaccinated then your chances of remaining healthy/alive are far greater being vaccinated.
But the chosen headline does not reflect that.

But not only is the headline focusing on the reverse, they've changed the point of reference to a more dramatic sounding it to one in five.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

You are taking it the wrong way.

It's already been established - and I know you have read the information - that a vaccinated person is infectious for a shorter period. This reduces the period during which they may infect others. It's also suggested - from other research - that whatever load is passed on during this reduced period of being infectious is lower than had the carrier not been vaccinated.

That means that the vaccines reduce everyone's chances of getting covid or or becoming ill from it. This is not the same as a vaccinated individual being less likely to 'get it' because they are vaccinated but it does mean they are less likely to get it because of the vaccines that others have received.

It's a subtle difference but it amounts to the same collective benefit.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

Yale Medicine good enough for ya.? "How well it works: Experts continue to learn about Pfizer’s efficacy both in the laboratory and in the real world. Pfizer’s initial Phase 3 clinical data presented in December showed its vaccine to have 95% efficacy. In April, the company announced the vaccine had 91.3% efficacy against COVID-19, based on measuring how well it prevented symptomatic COVID-19 infection seven days through up to six months after the second dose. It also found it to be 100% effective in preventing severe disease as defined by the CDC, and 95.3% effective in preventing severe disease as defined by the FDA. Another study, not yet peer-reviewed, provided more new data that brought the efficacy number down to 84% after 6 months, although efficacy against severe disease was 97%.

In August, the CDC also published studies that showed mRNA vaccine protection against infection may be waning, although the vaccines were still highly effective against hospitalization. In one CDC study, data from the state of New York showed vaccine effectiveness dropping from 91.8 to 75% against infection"
.
I'll be back once I've looked at the link you posted. Bye for now

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...8b6bca66f5.png
70% of new cases are not fully vaccinated.

There's further data of course on the severity of the infection.
However vaccinated people do seem to be better off.
​​I don't know if this proves what you said was bullshit as I wasn't going for that.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

Whilst we can continue to debate the above over and over one thing is clear, there will ALWAYS be people who are not going to get the vaccine. You can call them what you like, you can spout as many figures as you like about how at risk they are and you can threaten to take away their jobs, their leisure pursuits and whatever else but the fact remains a certain percentage will just not get it for whatever reason and that reason isn't always because they are a nut job. If the figures state that we are 60 times more likely to avoid ICU if we get the shot and some still don't get it then what else can you say? The issue of course with this kind of information is the distrust some have for what is broadcast and lets face it how many people are 100% trusting of the information they read. Flogging a dead horse is one phrase that comes to mind.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

Let's face it ...................

covid is going to be with us for a long time, just like flu.

It's going to come down to an annual vaccination for both flu and covid, with "new" vaccines every year based on the latest known variants.

The hope has to be that such an annual vaccination will at least mean that anyone who gets vaccinated and then catches covid will get a light case of it. Just as we do with the flu now.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

Should be banned from practicing altogether.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/two-ontar...cine-1.5627327

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

So long as they stay home it doesn't matter. It's only an issue if they go to public places.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

ICU doctors in Alberta beg to differ. https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...ver-three-days

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

FFS

I have stated recently that governments should make the vaccine mandatory, but they don't have the balls to do so.

You may remember that you criticized me once before for asking the question about whether those that were for masks actually wore them at home too. You suggested that I was an idiot and then, low and behold, a few days/weeks after I made that comment Canada's top doctor (although I have to admit that I didn't know that there was a competition that resulted in such a moniker, other than being appointed by a political party) suggested exactly the same thing.

I will take your advice as it appears that debate is not deemed a worthwhile cause around these parts.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

I suggest you look at what I am saying. I have never argued that vaccination does not reduce the effects of C-19. I have simply stated that being vaccinated does not prevent one from catching it, or passing it on.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

So, why are the vaccinated not required to prove that they are not carrying the virus, the same way that the unvaccinated are?

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

It's a shame you are incapable of reading what I actually stated, and not what you think I stated. I suggest you read it again. What I stated was correct.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

I accept that the numbers in ICU is over "normal capacity". However, that capacity has been increased and, if you look at the numbers from the official sources, you should note that, at all times, the ICU numbers have been around 80% of capacity. The capacity increases as the numbers go up, and decreases as the numbers go down.

Re: COVID is making me hate Canada
 

The way it “increases” is by screwing other patients and cancelling their operations. And the only reason even that is still possible is by Kenny eventually introducing a whole lot of bans and requirements.