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Old Jan 30th 2022 | 9:04 am
  #6016  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

We might not see 100% vaccination but there is more to be done and we can get to 99.99999%:

1. Require vaccine passport for entry to any business establishment including grocery stores. The most ardent unvaxxed could still obtain food by ordering online for delivery or curbside pickup, bearing the added cost in money or time.
2. Require proof of vaccination to renew a driver's licence and/or motor vehicle sticker. Driving is, after all, a privilege. The same goes for other licensed activities such as hunting and fishing.

I suspect those two steps would almost eliminate the problem of the unvaxxed. Then add on a meaningful tax, perhaps the greater of $2,500 or a 25% surcharge on provincial income tax due. And an extra surcharge for the unvaxxed who end up in hospitals, say to cover 50% of the actual costs.
 
Old Jan 30th 2022 | 9:24 am
  #6017  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Mordko
We might not see 100% vaccination but there is more to be done and we can get to 99.99999%:

1. Require vaccine passport for entry to any business establishment including grocery stores. The most ardent unvaxxed could still obtain food by ordering online for delivery or curbside pickup, bearing the added cost in money or time.
2. Require proof of vaccination to renew a driver's licence and/or motor vehicle sticker. Driving is, after all, a privilege. The same goes for other licensed activities such as hunting and fishing.

I suspect those two steps would almost eliminate the problem of the unvaxxed. Then add on a meaningful tax, perhaps the greater of $2,500 or a 25% surcharge on provincial income tax due. And an extra surcharge for the unvaxxed who end up in hospitals, say to cover 50% of the actual costs.
This all made sense until the final sentence, charging at the hospital is difficult to administer and arguably unjust. If an un-vaxxed person turns up with a broken leg and has no money, what is the hospital to do? It's not the US, the hospital can't pack the patient off to the county hospital, they have to treat the patient or leave him or her to deal with the injury in the street. (Note that, being a TERF, I would not be troubled by turning away someone who wanted to use some weird shit pronoun).
 
Old Jan 30th 2022 | 10:11 am
  #6018  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Shard
My criticism of the media is that they are not making much of a case. They report the statistics and may highlight noteworthy comparisons, but they don't emphasise the numbers of deaths in any meaningful way.
But they did for the 18th January figures. You can't get much more stark than the highest in nearly a year and it's not as if it was an absolute freak of a number just for that day.
 
Old Jan 31st 2022 | 2:28 am
  #6019  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Mordko
We might not see 100% vaccination but there is more to be done and we can get to 99.99999%:

1. Require vaccine passport for entry to any business establishment including grocery stores. The most ardent unvaxxed could still obtain food by ordering online for delivery or curbside pickup, bearing the added cost in money or time.
2. Require proof of vaccination to renew a driver's licence and/or motor vehicle sticker. Driving is, after all, a privilege. The same goes for other licensed activities such as hunting and fishing.

I suspect those two steps would almost eliminate the problem of the unvaxxed. Then add on a meaningful tax, perhaps the greater of $2,500 or a 25% surcharge on provincial income tax due. And an extra surcharge for the unvaxxed who end up in hospitals, say to cover 50% of the actual costs.
Can we conclude that you're a pro-vaxxer ?!
 
Old Jan 31st 2022 | 5:34 am
  #6020  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

I found this gem from 11 months ago. Oh how I wish it were true...


 
Old Jan 31st 2022 | 9:53 am
  #6021  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Mordko
We might not see 100% vaccination but there is more to be done and we can get to 99.99999%:

1. Require vaccine passport for entry to any business establishment including grocery stores. The most ardent unvaxxed could still obtain food by ordering online for delivery or curbside pickup, bearing the added cost in money or time.
2. Require proof of vaccination to renew a driver's licence and/or motor vehicle sticker. Driving is, after all, a privilege. The same goes for other licensed activities such as hunting and fishing.

I suspect those two steps would almost eliminate the problem of the unvaxxed. Then add on a meaningful tax, perhaps the greater of $2,500 or a 25% surcharge on provincial income tax due. And an extra surcharge for the unvaxxed who end up in hospitals, say to cover 50% of the actual costs.
Of course this is a suggestion that would be unlikely to do anything about the hard line anti vaxers and would drive a greater wedge between those on both sides of the argument and would no doubt lead to many more demonstrations and anger out on the streets yet at the same time doing little to seriously affect the numbers.
Our great leader who is sheltering from the crowds because he apparently now has COVID said this according to a local news source, and i quote: Trudeau says every Canadian is sick of the pandemic but it will not end because protesters demand it, but by people getting vaccinated.
So this will end when we all get vaccinated according to him except if we can still contract it and spread it even after being vaccinated how is this so? I could accept the fact that if only unvaccinated were getting ill and only unvaccinated were requiring hospital treatment then we should be looking at vaccination rates as an absolute but while we still have vaccinated people in hospital and ICU it's not the case.
 
Old Jan 31st 2022 | 10:33 am
  #6022  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by printer
So this will end when we all get vaccinated according to him except if we can still contract it and spread it even after being vaccinated how is this so?
It depends what you expect by End. If you mean no virus then it probably won't end. If you mean the kind of measures that have been in place the last couple of years coming to an end then, yes, maybe because those who are vaccinated spread lower levels of the virus to the next person.

I could accept the fact that if only unvaccinated were getting ill and only unvaccinated were requiring hospital treatment then we should be looking at vaccination rates as an absolute but while we still have vaccinated people in hospital and ICU it's not the case.
Typically most covid patients in hospital are unvaccinated. That on it's own indicates where the problem lies and when you factor in that typically the majority of populations are vaccinated - close to 80% double jabbed in Canada - you can see that something like two-thirds of covid patients are drawn from only a fifth of the population. That's quite a difference.

The aim from the beginning has been to limit the strain on hospitals, particularly ICU, with hospitals reporting they are at or near to capacity it's not difficult to see that 100% vaccinated would lead to most of the unvaccinated currently hospitalised not getting that far - because fewer people would be passing on high enough infection levels to hospitalise and with even more vaccinated than currently this would also reduce the vaccinated numbers too, for the same reason.

Of course some bright spark would come along then and say all the patients in hospital are vaccinated and hold this up as proof it doesn't work.
 
Old Jan 31st 2022 | 2:46 pm
  #6023  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Danny B
I found this gem from 11 months ago. Oh how I wish it were true...

https://twitter.com/aginnt/status/14...hu3JOZuhQ4UX1g
Just proof of why people really are losing trust in the "experts"...
 
Old Jan 31st 2022 | 2:56 pm
  #6024  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Gozit
Just proof of why people really are losing trust in the "experts"...
Why? Because of talk show hosts?
 
Old Jan 31st 2022 | 3:07 pm
  #6025  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

So this will end when we all get vaccinated according to him except if we can still contract it and spread it even after being vaccinated how is this so? I could accept the fact that if only unvaccinated were getting ill and only unvaccinated were requiring hospital treatment then we should be looking at vaccination rates as an absolute but while we still have vaccinated people in hospital and ICU it's not the case.
That’s because you don’t understand basic concepts, such as “probability”. School system’s fault. Neither does Trudeau but his handlers told him what to say.

Its not really complicated though:

1. Lockdowns are bad. Kids don’t get to study, businesses go bust, etc.
2. Lockdowns happen when ICUs are at risk of being overwhelmed.
3. Probability of ending in ICU is much, much, much less if your vaccination status is up to date.
4. Keeping vaccination status up to date is good for kids, businesses, budget, anyone who is tired of lockdowns.
5. If you love lockdowns, hate kids, high unemployment and want to pay lots of taxes in the future than vaxxing is bad for you.
 
Old Jan 31st 2022 | 3:52 pm
  #6026  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Mordko
That’s because you don’t understand basic concepts, such as “probability”. School system’s fault. Neither does Trudeau but his handlers told him what to say.

Its not really complicated though:

1. Lockdowns are bad. Kids don’t get to study, businesses go bust, etc.
2. Lockdowns happen when ICUs are at risk of being overwhelmed.
3. Probability of ending in ICU is much, much, much less if your vaccination status is up to date.
4. Keeping vaccination status up to date is good for kids, businesses, budget, anyone who is tired of lockdowns.
5. If you love lockdowns, hate kids, high unemployment and want to pay lots of taxes in the future than vaxxing is bad for you.
So what are you saying? Any country that has a poor vaccination rate (ours apparently for you isn't even enough) is looking at lockdowns, high taxes, high unemployment and the rest. Sorry but you seem to be deluded here because i am pretty sure we are amongst the top in vaccination stats and still it's not considered good enough. This strategy you are looking at is not achievable and is not even being considered in other countries. UK has just announced it will NOT mandate NHS staff to get vaccinated and risk losing their jobs particularly as they need all the staff they can get yet here we are on some crusade to send anyone who isn't vaccinated to some place far away from society because they are outcasts.
 
Old Jan 31st 2022 | 4:28 pm
  #6027  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by printer
So what are you saying? Any country that has a poor vaccination rate (ours apparently for you isn't even enough) is looking at lockdowns, high taxes, high unemployment and the rest. Sorry but you seem to be deluded here because i am pretty sure we are amongst the top in vaccination stats and still it's not considered good enough. This strategy you are looking at is not achievable and is not even being considered in other countries. UK has just announced it will NOT mandate NHS staff to get vaccinated and risk losing their jobs particularly as they need all the staff they can get yet here we are on some crusade to send anyone who isn't vaccinated to some place far away from society because they are outcasts.
Contrary to rumours, UK isn’t the only “other country”. Austria is making Covid vaccination mandatory as of today. Italy made it mandatory for over 50s. Numerous countries are “considering” and will. Non-covid vaccination is already mandatory in Ontario for kids to go to school. What we have now is a public health emergency, so justification is stronger.

Yes, we are looking at lockdowns. Just had one.

Yes, we are going to have even higher taxes. And fewer services. Our debt has grown astronomically and payments will form a large chunk of the budget as the interest rate begins to rise. The more Covid, closures and handouts, the higher future taxes.

Yes, the longer closures and restrictions go on for, the higher the number of bankruptcies (we’ve had hundreds of thousands so far).

Encouraging vaccination should be designed to get people to vaccinate. Its up to them if they choose to be “outcasts” and chip in more to cover the extra costs they would be imposing on others.

Last edited by Mordko; Jan 31st 2022 at 4:33 pm.
 
Old Jan 31st 2022 | 11:17 pm
  #6028  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

I'm a bit late with this but...

 
Old Jan 31st 2022 | 11:19 pm
  #6029  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Danny B
I found this gem from 11 months ago. Oh how I wish it were true...

https://twitter.com/aginnt/status/14...hu3JOZuhQ4UX1g
Originally Posted by Gozit
Just proof of why people really are losing trust in the "experts"...
I was unable to get the video to play but having googled, from all appearances the quote seems to be that of a MSNBC presenter rather than an expert.
 
Old Feb 1st 2022 | 12:39 am
  #6030  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by printer
Of course this is a suggestion that would be unlikely to do anything about the hard line anti vaxers and would drive a greater wedge between those on both sides of the argument and would no doubt lead to many more demonstrations and anger out on the streets yet at the same time doing little to seriously affect the numbers.
Our great leader who is sheltering from the crowds because he apparently now has COVID said this according to a local news source, and i quote: Trudeau says every Canadian is sick of the pandemic but it will not end because protesters demand it, but by people getting vaccinated.
So this will end when we all get vaccinated according to him except if we can still contract it and spread it even after being vaccinated how is this so? I could accept the fact that if only unvaccinated were getting ill and only unvaccinated were requiring hospital treatment then we should be looking at vaccination rates as an absolute but while we still have vaccinated people in hospital and ICU it's not the case.
I've been fully vaccinated and boostered. Recently I was tested for Covid and found positive. So yes, myself and thousands of others still can get the virus. In my case, it was the variant Omicron and it was a very mild case but I could have passed it to others and did ... my brother-in-law.

 


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