triumphguy

Sorry - I can't stand it when my cat brings home an American Goldfinch a Redpoll or a chickadee for a present. Cats hunt far more readily than dogs and devastate wild bird populations. The only place cats belong in the wild is where they originated. I keep my cat indoors (as much as poss), and he has a happy life: lots of toys, hugs and strokes from the kids, and gets to play with my border terrier etc.

Alberta_Rose

We always had Siamese (and later Burmese) cats when I was young. One cat was hit by a car when she was about 6 months old, and had her hip pinned. She lived to the grand old age of 21, and died peacefully in her sleep.

I never really countenanced "indoor cats" when I was in the UK. The only ones I had seen lived in high-rise apartments with old ladies who let them get terribly fat, and it seemed an anathema to me. I was horrified when my brother in the UK got two blue Burmese and decided they would be "indoor cats". He was afraid of them getting run over or stolen rather than eaten, but he did build them a large run in the back garden and used to sit out there with them when my SIL's nagging got to be too much!

When we visited last year he was allowing the cats (now aged about 8) to come into the garden, but they stayed on the nice warm patio, and were discouraged from venturing onto the grass.

Now we've adopted our two, and they are 5 year old "indoor cats". I think they have more running around room here, cos I don't think I am feeding them less than their old owners said, and they do seem to be slimming down a bit. They are allowed to go out on the back deck, cos it is on the second floor, and they like to sit in the sun and watch the birdies!

If/when we ever build our new deck, it will be staged to access the back yard and then we will have to rethink cat policy probably!

fledermaus

Cats killing pretty birds might offend your sensibilities but cats aren't to blame for "devastating bird populations". It's more likely to be due to man made causes such as pesticides,insecticides, habitat, than a moggie attack.

http://rspca-cambridge.blogspot.com/...-sparrows.html

http://ecoearth.info/shared/reader/w...ND%20%20forage

triumphguy

Sorry, but in my back garden we don't use pesticides; and outdoor cats offend my sense of fair play: these birds fly a thousand miles miles to get here in spring, often arriving while it's snowing and then get killed - for pleasure not food -by some pampered pet.

And BTW domestic cats kill hundreds of millions of birds each year in Canada the UK and the US. It's sentimentality that allows cats outside; they don't belong outside in Canada -they are not indigenous, are artificially fed, and so prey for pleasure not food, and cause a disproportionate amount of damage to indigenous bird populations, which are already under pressure from persticides and loss of habitat.

Your moggy may only kill one bird every few weeks, but add them all up....

http://birdchaser.blogspot.com/2008/...irds-each.html

I'm not saying kill cats, I'm saying keep them indoors (or if that offends your sensibilities get an indoor pet) so they can't kill birds.

BTW goldfinches are monogamous. Lose a mate and there are no young for that year, so the death of one indicates 2 or 3 less finches for the following season.

dbd33

What is the bird population of the US and what is the death rate due to causes other than cats?

iaink

Must be a city thing.

When there are 20 semi feral barn cats hanging around I dont thing three fat lazy cats that couldnt catch water in a bucket are going to make much difference.

I dont think our three have caught more than two birds between them in ten years, and I suspect those ones had flown into the window on the way to the feeder and were in bad shape before the cats got them anyway.


Maybe we shouldnt encourage the birds to gather around the feeder? Cant be good for the bird population to make them semi dependent on us, and it certainly makes it easier for predators to have them all gather in one spot.

I often wonder how many humming birds etc perish each year by venturing north too early because of the presence of feeders (rather than real seasonally appropriate food), and end up frozen to death in a late frost.

triumphguy

A billion is still a billion. And some bird populations are already under great stress.

And Iank - "maybe we shouldn't encourage birds to gather around the feeder?" That doesn't make sense! Do you mean do away with the feeders?

I have bird specific feeders, and so have nuthatches, redpolls, song sparrows, goldfinches and green finches in my garden (among other species). They also breed and nest in the mature conifers I have, but the feeders help the species that winter here through the bad weather.

And I'm not anti-cat. I have a cat, but he's neutered and stays indoors.

iaink

Take two of these, you are irony deficient.






Nature, what are you going to do. Pampered Indoor cats are a relatively new phenomenon, and yet the birds have survived this long... Our cats are crap hunters fortunately, yes cats in general take a toll on the bird population, but then they always have done. My primary concern is with my cats welfare, and they are happy to stay in in the winter, but love to roam and lounge in the sun in the summer. Our main concern in keeping them in is cat fights(they are lovers not fighters I guess) and other animal encounters (raccoons, koyotes etc).

Trying to dictate to a cat is a pointless exercise isnt it? If it wants to go out, you might as well let it out, if it doesnt then thats good too. I wouldn't encourage it, but if they want to get out they will in the end anyway, so why fight it.

My point was tongue in cheek...by providing a feeder for the birds we conveniently get them all in one place for the predators. Its probably somewhat ironic that more birds are killed flying into our windows coming to and from the feeder than out mighty hunters could ever dream of catching...

Butch Cassidy

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you live in Calgary? Your household has at least one car and a motorbike?

Now let me see the house will (probably) be mainly of wood construction (forest 'devestation' resulting in loss of habitat not only for birds but also mammals and insects) possibly with vinyl siding and asphalt shingels (both involving chemical reactions and further loss of natural resources in raw materials, more 'devestation' to the environment).

Dont get me started on the damage motor vehicle production does to the world. I presume as well that you drive and ride on roads (more land cleared and natural habitat lost) what about the air pollution caused by your vehicles?

I put it to you that the damage done to the world by your 'lifestyle' is far greater than the damage an 'outdoor' cat could have ever done.

fledermaus

How come the decline in the sparrow population is only recent? It's also happening in India too, but this survey say that the UK sparrow population varies regionally, how do you explain that? The experts aren't blaming cats.

http://www.bto.org/gbw/HOUSP/index.htm

dbd33

A billion is some guy's wild guess at a number, even if it's accurate it has no significance if the population is a billion billion and the death rate ten million billion. Some context is needed.

What is the population and death rate for the species under stress, how much of that is due to cats? We've no idea, the whole cat thing is fanciful.

triumphguy

Exactly - so why compound it? Anyway, since it's Calgary it's a moot point. since cats by law have to be inside, or they go to pussy jail.

Like I said I'm not anti cat, I just don't subscribe to the "Oh poor kitty he wants to hunt, and it's not natural to lock him up inside otherwise he will be unhappy" sentimentality. We have pets for our own purposes, and to anthropomorphise them, and ascribe feelings and sentiments to them as if they have their own civil liberties lawyers who are going to sue if we don't let kitty out, is a bit silly. I'm just trying to show another side, a consequence as it were to letting cats out willy-nilly. Especially if their willy hasn't been nill-ied!

On the irony point - I'm a bit light headed right now having just given blood for the umpteenth time in 6 months order to de-iron (a consequence of hemochromatosis)! So maybe being now artifically anaemic has some side-effects on the humour front!

triumphguy

If you read the article it doesn't seem to much of a wild guess, and somehow I doubt there's a billion billion birds!

Hey it's the individual owners choice: except in Calgary!

But with every choice comes consequences. Personally I like seeing song birds in my own garden - a billion is too big as number to comprehend, but in my back yard one dead song bird courtesy of kitty is one too many.

triumphguy

Maybe they're emigrating to Canada. We've got no shortage of european sparrows round here: another introduced species that negatively impacts local wild populations! If I could train my cat only to kill european sparrows I would let him out, but he doesn't listen, so f@#% him, he's staying indoors!

fledermaus

Why not keep the birds indoors too? You like imprisoning a cat, so why not birds?

You are providing an artificial environment for the birds anyway by feeding them.