Putting aside politics for a moment, I just wanted to say that while I feel strongly about climate change and the tar sands' role in it, on a personal level, I don't wish flooding and flooded homes on anyone. I know from following the Christchurch rebuild that the hard stuff really starts after all the attention has gone and all the shock has worn off, so it's going to be tough in Calgary for a while.

Carry on.

and a lot of ex-Albertans who like trees move to BC, juding by my neighbours/coworkers

re: talkback, a few people pointed out the irony of Calgary getting slapped with a nasty flood when apparently, the province and city are so happy to help pump out tar oil through BC. There was not the sympathy that I would have expected. I don't think that's a sentiment you would have heard before the pipeline came up.

The thing is, it's not like BC is the only place having issues. So are people in the UK and the USA. It's pretty crazy that canadian politicians are having to go to other countries and try to sweet-talk the populace into loving the tar sands. Hello, pariah province.

I've noticed a common theme with tarsands supporters: expecting their opponents to live up to some impossible standard, and when they're unable to because of the way infrastructure & society are structured, saying SEE I TOLD YOU SO. Hint: it's not working.

Also I don't drive. And judging by the queues at transit and the people on the bike lanes, neither do a lot of other people.

Environmental protection BC style............

http://www.sierraclub.bc.ca/our-work...c.s-north-east

I realise it may make you feel good but could you please refrain from calling them "Tar Sands"? They are oil sands.

Also not every Albertan is happy with the way they have been developed so far. That has to change, but telling us they are responsible for far more than they actually are is disingenuous. There are many other things in the world that are producing as much if not more pollution that contributes to climate change. Lets hear about some of that instead of railing on about how bad Alberta is.

As was said earlier if the oil sands had been in B.C. or any other province can you tell us unequivocally that they would not have been touched or even developed in the same manner? I don't think so.

I left this forum over year ago because of attitudes like this, perhaps it's time for me to leave again maybe for good this time.

I think the Oil Sands opponents are creating the high standard. If the oil sands are bad, why isn't every other source of oil?

Although I drive, my trip to work is by Calgary Transit. When it comes to transit ridership, BC and Alberta are pretty similar:

http://www.comt.ca/english/recent-nov2010.pdf

Because, as I and others have posted many times before, when you do a full cycle energy audit, you discover that the net energy gain from the oil sands is negligible compared to "traditional" sources of oil.

Unfortunately, realpolitik also comes into it... it's a question of supply.

What's better for the average Canadian citizen? A barrel of oil produced in Canada by (mostly ) Canadian labour which keeps much of the cost of production and supply in the Canadian economy, not to mention the taxation on that labour, and the royalties etc - or forking out hard currency so that the sheikhs' kids can ship their Lamborghinis over to Knightsbridge for the summer?

The oil sands produce approx 2 million barrels per day at the moment. At $90/bbl, that's $180 million per day you'd need to hand over to foreign countries if you were to import to replace it - and some of those countries you would be loathe to spend a dollar supporting by any other means due to their unsavoury attitudes.

Why is it OK for you to excuse behavior of BCers because of the way infrastructure and society are structured but yet you hold all Albertans entirely responsible for the oilsands?

As the BCers loathe Albertans so much, perhaps they would not mind if all the Albertans who take their annual vacation in such places as Kelowna and the Gulf Islands, just stayed at home this year. After all, we have "dirty money". No? Thought not!

The OP does appear to be minded to make the links by initiating this thread.....

I realize this thread is about climate change, but it would be nice to see some caring and compassion for those directly affected by this flood. They're not all rich, living in mansions! Many of them are just regular guys trying to make a living and renting a home where they can afford. I was down in one area yesterday, expensive homes next door to rental duplexes with new immigrants. Both had only been in their homes since April, I'm not sure that I would want to suggest that either one is worse off than the other. They were both stunned and shocked!

It's ugly out there and many are hurting, it's actually good to see how generous Calgarians and Albertans can be with their time, energy and donations. Take a look at yychelps.ca to see what is being done!

The time to debate climate change is when people are back in their homes.

Rant over.

I didn't suggest that you can't make money (although nothing like the amounts you suggest which simply quote the selling price), but that the Oil Sands don't win much, if any, energy. So why bother?

The net effect is to move $$ around without benefit to anyone, just concentrating the $$ in a few different hands.

Meanwhile the damage to the environment (pointless CO2 emissions, water pollution, landscape devastation, destruction of habitats, threats to First Nation communities' health and survivability etc. etc.) go unaccounted for in $$ terms.

The oilsands "might" not win much net energy, but they do transfer that energy from where it is to where it's needed. And that's not to be sniffed at, even from the physics point of view.

Your other environmental points apply equally to all forms of resource production, especially "pointless" resources like gold and diamonds. And from my limited time in Canada, First Nations health and survivability only seems to be of concern when it's a useful stick to hit the oilsands with. The rest of the time, most Canadians really couldn't care less about what happens north of their back yard.

Surely, it's anywhere outside their back yard?