Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

I'm not saying we aren't a factor in it. What I'm saying is we're not the only factor. Climate change was a reality long before humans came along. There may not be anything we can do to stop it.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

Climactic extremes well beyond those that humans might influence were a reality, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't safeguard against climactic shifts in our own era. If we end up turning Europe and North America into deserts within a century or two, that would not be a desirable outcome. Obviously as humans, we may well be able to adapt (through migration or technology) nevertheless inducing detrimental climate change is not something we should be complacent about.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

I rather like the idea of climactic extremes.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

Just the "idea"?

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

To answer your last point first. Of course there is.

Climate change is certainly something the planet has experienced independently of human activity. Over millennia and epochs, not over decades.

The last time the planet went through a warming phase even vaguely similar to the current one was during the Younger Dryas period about 11,000 years ago.

The current one is due to human activity in exploiting fossil fuels and is caused by us increasing the CO2 levels in the atmosphere from about 260 ppm in 1800 to over 400 ppm today.

The Younger Dryas on the other hand was a by product of melting ice fields and glaciers at a time when the North American outflow from the melting ice cap stopped flowing south through what has become the Mississippi and suddenly was able (as the ice retreated) to flow to the North Atlantic along what is now known as the St. Lawrence.

The influx of fresh water to the NA, decreased the salinity of the NA ocean waters and disrupted the Gulf Stream and in general the thermohaline circulation.

Ironically enough, this phenomenon resulted in the end of the Dryas period and returned the NH to ice age conditions for further 1000 years.

To underline the significance of all this, it is only in the period since 1000 years after the end of the Dryas event that humanity developed agriculture, which lead eventually to the establishment of permanent settlements, societies and the end of hunter gatherer culture.


But of course the utterly pointless Alberta Oil Sands are an economic imperative.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

+ 1. :thumbdown:

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

This on the Beeb last night.

The connection wasn't entirely spelt out, but if oil is as abundant as is suggested, the economics of Alberta oil may well wane...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23280894

Not that it bodes well for alternative energy.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

...as posted by jimf 2 pages ago.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

Oops. It's all that sun, reducing my screen time.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

Of course it matters, the more of it there is there, the more specialized the extraction process can get to generate a higher rate of return, that's basic economics.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

How good are you at basic survival?

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

It must be evident that my ancestors were fantastic at it.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

I don't think I was talking to you.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

Who knows........... Oil will be used as a significant supply of energy whatever the source.

The reality is if carbon emissions are to be restored to pre-industrial levels then so does the world population and lifestyle. The idea that wind turbines are the answer does seem somewhat delusional. Exporting carbon emissions from the west to the east seems rather pointless also.

Is it true that the planet average annual temperature hasn't risen since 1998?

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

No. 2010 was warmer, not that comparing single years means anything at all. You have to look at 20-30 year trends.

http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/documents/4...3-124ac76680c5