Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

There is a sad irony in this happening in the centre of the tar patch:

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2013/06/24...limate-Change/

"A 2006 Provincial Flood Mitigation Report even recommended that the province forbid the selling of flood plains to developers. But the one-party state deep sixed the report for five years and did not make it public until 2012".

http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/06/24/a...limate-change/

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

So, they got what they deserved, did they?

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

Water has to go somewhere. If you cover that somewhere with concrete, the water will go to where it is being forced to. The same happens in the UK.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

BC, forever raging

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

I haven't seen any suggestions regarding the return period of the 2013 flooding. I've heard mention that the 2005 flood wasn't even a 20 year return period and the only reference I could find after a quick look was to a 14 year return period. The significant floods in Calgary occured in the early part of the 20th century.

https://www.calgary.ca/UEP/Water/Doc...tor_CENTRE.pdf

Tying the flooding to climate change does seem to be wishful thinking.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

http://www.transportation.alberta.ca...ffasixcase.pdf

Couldn't open the link jmf provided but this link details flood events up until 1996. It is missing 1996-now which included the 2005 flood. it looks to me like the last time the bow flooded close to this badly as this flood was in the thirties.

This page suggests the peak bow flow was 1740 m3/s in 2013 .
â—¾2005 peak flow: 791 cms
â—¾1932 peak flow: 1,520 cms

So this was a very large flood:
http://alberta.ca/estimated-peak-river-flows.cfm

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

Wishful thinking?? What on earth do you mean by that?

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

Certainly the maximum flow for 2013 is comparable with the 1932 flow but it also seems that the flow in 2013 was sustained for a longer time. Figure 5.1 indicates higher flows in the late 19th century. Calgary seems to have been free of significant flooding for most of the time the city has existed.

The link I posted previously showed the limit of the river valley - highlighting the extent that modern Calgary occupies the river valley.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

This is a good flood map:

http://environment.alberta.ca/01655.html

Click on the hazard app

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

Perhaps it's not "wishful thinking", but it certainly smacks of waving a convenient fact (the flooding) to support a preconcieved position (climate change).

I've no strong opinion on climate change, but I do agree that building houses on known floodplains is a foolhardy thing to do. The clue's in the name, innit?

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

Very good map. I reckon you could almost exactly overlay the actual flooding with the known flood hazard areas.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

So flooding and building in the old areas doesn't surprise me, after all Calgary is there because of the confluence of two rivers, so like many cities there is bound to be some development on a floodplain; but Discovery ridge? It seems amazing that some developer was granted permission to stick a load of houses there, none built with any particular flood measures (you can build houses to minimise damage when they flood, a friend in York had one, electrics above flood level, all concrete floor and half way up walls, designed to dry out effectively with minimal spend and everyone was allowed to develop their basement and now the city/province picks up the tab? Very weird

Apparently, flowing the 2005 flood a guy at work did some modelling for the city and it was used as a predictive tool for this flood, ie areas etc. Apparently it worked very effectively

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

Its certainly in the name High River....

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

Don't think it quite mimics Bowness or sunnyside? But certainly Discovery ridge

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

I believe in man-made climate change. I also think that its tenuous to link this event to climate change. Why? Well for starters its happened before. Secondly I think the climate change predictions make for a drier alberta with reduced summer river flows.

Albertans are suffering big time; sure they deplete natural resources but I don't see BC as angels in all this; they are still developing fossil fuels (quintette just got a permit to take most of a mountain away) and devastate huge tracts of land with resource development, subsequent tailings etc.

Sure some Albertans lived in a flood zone but that's like not having sympathy if a big quake struck Vancouver (which it will)

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

Maybe so but they did follow the report recommendations, Environment Alberta has implemented them.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

Last time I was in Vancouver I didn't see a lot of people riding their bikes along the freeway.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

I've been saying for ages that it's potty for people to buy houses in the floodplain in Calgary, knock them down and build a new house, it's been going on for years, there's a whole industry around it.

When I moved here it wasn't long after the last flood and the first thing I did was check the floodplain map.

I doubt much will happen from a legal standpoint but maybe there will be a by-law that curtails redevelopment in the floodplain, or at least makes it clear that you get a notification that you can't get insurance and the govt. isn't going to bail you out if there is a flood. Although after this you would think most people would figure it out for themselves.

Also I suspect something is going to be done about Glenmore Dam, seeing as this is the second time in eight years it has been over topped.

I can't see it changing attitudes towards climate change though, there wouldn't be an Alberta without the oil and gas industry.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

And there wouldn't be an oil and gas industry without a market. To blame it all on Alberta is what I would call hypocrisy.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

Okay not all of the recommendations: http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Pr...874/story.html

And this is the report: http://www.aema.alberta.ca/images/Ne...ion_Report.pdf

So basically, all the people who built McMansions along the Elbow River are going to be compensated by the province.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

of course not, it's dangerous. We have bike paths for that :thumbup:

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

I think you know what I mean.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

No, I don't. But I do recognise it's terribly inconvenient for you that climate change is happening AND now effecting Alberta.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

According to talkback yesterday, that was the popular theme. You can't blame BCers for being angry.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

earthquakes aren't caused by climate, duh.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

Some photos of the cleanup effort. You can tell by looking at these people that they aren't regular people. They deserve the flood because they live in Alberta:

http://www.calgarysun.com/2013/06/25...ain-re-opening

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

They can all protest by not driving their cars.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

There's certainly nothing to suggest that the flooding taking place now is in any way unusual or connected to any anthopogenic climate change. The biggest floods in Calgary occured over 120 years ago.

BC is happy to encourage hydraulic frackuring to exploit gas reserves with the consequential risk of earthquakes and water quality. And the mining that goes on in BC .......... Out of sight out of mind as far as the luvvies in Victoria are concerned.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

ExKiwilass, overall, which do you believe causes the most environmental damage:

(1) the Albertan oilsands development, or

(2) the North American over-consumerist lifestyle?

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

Couldn't agree more (and I believe in man-made climate change)

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

I hope by that you mean "I accept that the science demonstrating that man-made climate change is happening is solid?"

Rather than "I believe in causing man-made climate change".

Just checking. ;)

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

They're angry because Alberta has suffered floods? Weird.

Did you swim from New Zealand to Canada?

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

What I mean is that I don't see a lot of people getting out of their cars in Vancouver to do something about climate change. It's easy to blame Alberta for it. It's a lot harder to change lifestyle to do something about it.

Being part of the solution doesn't involve blaming someone else for the problem. If you really want to do something, don't create a market. And remember that Alberta isn't the only place oil comes from - removing the market goes beyond not approving a pipeline.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

You are right! The first!!

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

Sure, but this flood is caused by climate; that its caused by climate change is a leap too far. So its a natural hazard, same as earthquakes. Can't really see what BCers are angry about. How can you get angry that another province has flooded. That's just plain weird

Like the others I think BCers are hypocritical. Our Vancouver office hardly recycles anything; in Calgary we even compost the coffee grounds. Whenever I go to BC I see giant ferries, float planes, and loads of motor boats; so a lot of demand for oil. I also see huge open pit mines; including fossil fuels and fracking too. Plus I see loads of cars stuck in endless traffic because they have to commute so far.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

You didn't mention the huge areas of forest that have been clear cut.

Although it likely doesn't directly contribute to climate change it sure isn't environmentally friendly. Then again that's huge a area that is no longer going to absorb any carbon dioxide. :(

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

I think between the two of you, the issues are being conflated. I think Kiwi was on about the pipeline through BC, not suggesting the the left coasters were angry about Calgary being inundated.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

Oh, but it does. Just for the reason you mentioned. Lower CO2 absorption.

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

If I understand correctly the pipeline itself is not "the" major issue. It's shipping the heavy stuff out by tanker that seems to be the big issue with a large number of B.C. residents, not all I know but a lot.

Otherwise why would they seem to be OK with a refinery on the coast and shipping lighter product overseas?

Re: Climate change and the Alberta Floods
 

Sorta why I said "Then again". ;)