Canadian Values
#61
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2014
Location: Done with condescending old hags
Posts: 1,194
Re: Canadian Values
Why is this such a big deal for Canadians? Other countries evacuated significant numbers from Lebanon without making such a hoohaa about dual nationality and returnees.
Are the other countries more compassionate than Canada? Less bigoted? More accepting that people wanted to return to their homes once they were able?
Are the other countries more compassionate than Canada? Less bigoted? More accepting that people wanted to return to their homes once they were able?
Essentially, these people by and large have no problem helping people when Canada is their home. They have a bigger problem helping people when Canada is, or appears to be, their lifeboat.
#62
limey party pooper
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,982
Re: Canadian Values
I think a good chunk of the issue is (rightly or wrongly) the "their homes" part of it. Some people feel that if a person has become a Canadian citizen, their home should be in one of the provinces or territories, and that leaving to have a home elsewhere (particularly one where they originally had, before moving to Canada) is indicative of wanting Canadian protection, rather than of wanting to be a part of Canadian society.
Essentially, these people by and large have no problem helping people when Canada is their home. They have a bigger problem helping people when Canada is, or appears to be, their lifeboat.
Essentially, these people by and large have no problem helping people when Canada is their home. They have a bigger problem helping people when Canada is, or appears to be, their lifeboat.
Maybe some of those people were born Canadian.
The conflict was expected to have lasted longer than a month otherwise why would evacuations take place? Imagine that you and your family were being bombed by a neighbouring country and that your government did not retaliate. Cluster bombs and phosphorus bombs are landing in civilian areas. You have the opportunity to leave and you take it. Then there's an unexpected ceasefire and the country you've lived in for many years, maybe all your life, is not entirely wrecked. Wouldn't you go back?
As for the evacuation if dual nationality, I doubt there would have been time to assess who had this and who didn't.
I think it's a bigoted and churlish attitude.
edit. Instead of being pleased that those people were able to return to their homes Canadians were sulking because the refugees preferred Lebanon over Canada.
No doubt they are the same Canadians who don't want the Syrians here and if those Syrians are ever able to return to help rebuild Syria there will be complaints about ingratitude
Last edited by bats; Sep 21st 2016 at 3:57 pm.
#63
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2014
Location: Done with condescending old hags
Posts: 1,194
Re: Canadian Values
I'd expect evacuations to take place based on the severity of the issue, not the timescale; at the extreme, if I was in a city that would be levelled as part of a day-long conflict, I'd quite like to see an evacuation take place.
#64
Re: Canadian Values
Interesting. The humanist thing I mean. The organisation, without the belief aspect. I don't have religion, but if I did the 'organised' aspect of it would still be one of the major drawbacks.
#65
Re: Canadian Values
Unfortunately you need some 'organisation' to counter the insidious creep of religion itself. Best example of this is opposition to the highly perverse government policy of not only allowing, but encouraging faith schools. British humanists are trying to change this.
#66
Re: Canadian Values
When I first read your response I thought hmmm, yeah, good point. But, apart from the likelihood that any government encouragement has to do with funding/creep towards privatisation do religious schools make any difference to the overall level of 'belief'? I'm not really a fan of Dawkins-style atheism that has to 'convert' others to non-belief.
#67
Re: Canadian Values
Imagine what you're told at home being reinforced by your teachers and then at home again and then by your teachers again but also by your peers because that's all they get at home and at school as well.
That's got to make a belief more ingrained than if being exposed to other ideas hasn't it?
#68
Re: Canadian Values
Oh, you're probably right. I just hope to make friends with a few people who aren't completely brain dead. I'll probably spit in their faces after 20 minutes.
#69
Re: Canadian Values
Belief in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy lessens because people tell you they don't exist (the cads) and doubt sets in.
Imagine what you're told at home being reinforced by your teachers and then at home again and then by your teachers again but also by your peers because that's all they get at home and at school as well.
That's got to make a belief more ingrained than if being exposed to other ideas hasn't it?
Imagine what you're told at home being reinforced by your teachers and then at home again and then by your teachers again but also by your peers because that's all they get at home and at school as well.
That's got to make a belief more ingrained than if being exposed to other ideas hasn't it?
My youngest is in grade 8, and there exists amongst her peers a belief that clever kids go to Catholic high school. Most of those who will be choosing St Max are doing so because of that belief (and possibly a comparison of exam results) not because of religious affiliation.
#70
Re: Canadian Values
When I first read your response I thought hmmm, yeah, good point. But, apart from the likelihood that any government encouragement has to do with funding/creep towards privatisation do religious schools make any difference to the overall level of 'belief'? I'm not really a fan of Dawkins-style atheism that has to 'convert' others to non-belief.
#74
Re: Canadian Values
Belief in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy lessens because people tell you they don't exist (the cads) and doubt sets in.
Imagine what you're told at home being reinforced by your teachers and then at home again and then by your teachers again but also by your peers because that's all they get at home and at school as well.
That's got to make a belief more ingrained than if being exposed to other ideas hasn't it?
Imagine what you're told at home being reinforced by your teachers and then at home again and then by your teachers again but also by your peers because that's all they get at home and at school as well.
That's got to make a belief more ingrained than if being exposed to other ideas hasn't it?
#75
Re: Canadian Values
When has the 'you can't/you shouldn't/you're wrong' approach ever succeeded in rationalising religious belief? Fighting religion promotes a bunker mentality. Just live and let live. Religion will never be 'gone'. Some people need it. Let it go.
Last edited by Teaandtoday5; Sep 21st 2016 at 5:07 pm. Reason: Getting in before the grammar police