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Old Aug 11th 2013 | 11:18 am
  #76  
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Default Re: bongo bongo land

Originally Posted by jimf
It could well be considered insulting and stereotyping - I'd queried the previous reference to it being racist.
Seeing as racism is discrimination and categorising based on cultural and or ethnic stereotypes then in this case it is racism.
 
Old Aug 11th 2013 | 11:35 am
  #77  
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Default Re: bongo bongo land

How can a politician from one European country (The UK) speaking to another European (a German) be racist?

Race, in this instance, has bugger all to do with it
 
Old Aug 11th 2013 | 11:51 am
  #78  
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Default Re: bongo bongo land

Originally Posted by montreal mike
How can a politician from one European country (The UK) speaking to another European (a German) be racist?

Race, in this instance, has bugger all to do with it
That's because you think of race in old fashioned white folk black folk terms in a 19th century manner.
From Wikipedia.

The United Nations use the definition of racial discrimination laid out in the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, adopted in 1966:

… any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.(Part 1 of Article 1 of the U.N. International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination) [
 
Old Aug 11th 2013 | 12:31 pm
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Default Re: bongo bongo land

I much prefer the definition i learnt on my mama's knee

As to the UN, it does not have an enviable record, and here i am being charitable, so it should be the very last organization to define what race is or is not
 
Old Aug 11th 2013 | 12:45 pm
  #80  
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Default Re: bongo bongo land

'one people, one empire, one leader'

that is what the man said

he is quoting an awkward historical fact; a brief episode in German history

at least, slightly more accurate than 'bongo bongo' which is a make-believe country
 
Old Aug 12th 2013 | 7:44 am
  #81  
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Default Re: bongo bongo land

Originally Posted by jimf
It could well be considered insulting and stereotyping - I'd queried the previous reference to it being racist.
It does contradict the widely held belief that there is no such thing as assumed guilt, ie: All Germans are not Nazis. Children and grandchildren are not held responsible for the misdeeds of their ancestors. That anyone who would say Bongo Bongo Land would have put his foot in this as well is no surprise.
 
Old Aug 12th 2013 | 10:14 am
  #82  
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Default Re: bongo bongo land

Ambitious and delusional. Socialists and foie gras in Michelin ** restaurants............

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/c76118f6-a...#axzz2bnKAUIom
 
Old Aug 12th 2013 | 10:40 am
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Default Re: bongo bongo land

That link just asks me to sign into my Financial Times account, something else I don't have, damn!
 
Old Aug 12th 2013 | 10:44 am
  #84  
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Default Re: bongo bongo land

Originally Posted by caretaker
That link just asks me to sign into my Financial Times account, something else I don't have, damn!
I don't have a FT account - the website lets me view the article no problem.

Added: I must have registered previously since that allows for 8 articles a month for free.

Last edited by jimf; Aug 12th 2013 at 10:48 am.
 
Old Aug 12th 2013 | 10:52 am
  #85  
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Default Re: bongo bongo land

Originally Posted by jimf
Ambitious and delusional. Socialists and foie gras in Michelin ** restaurants............

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/c76118f6-a...#axzz2bnKAUIom
Thanks for this link - interesting read.
 
Old Aug 12th 2013 | 1:31 pm
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Default Re: bongo bongo land

Originally Posted by Zen10
Thanks for this link - interesting read.
How so? What I took from it was that some people mock Germans as Nazis. Well, yes, not fair, not reasonable, not surprising.
 
Old Aug 12th 2013 | 1:53 pm
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Default Re: bongo bongo land

i spent 6 months in west Germany in 1972

I spoke to the (then) older generation about that era and they tended to get more annoyed than ashamed, even though somewhat emotional. They correctly pointed out that this was the work of a madman, and that not everyone was a Nazi, or hated Jews, or worked for the gestapo.

The younger generation, in fact mine, those born during or after the war, I found were were more indifferent than anything and they did not mind discussing it.

Some 40 years have since elapsed.

The older generation is gone and that younger generation i made reference to above has replaced them

So i truly fail to see where the insult lies?

If i were a middle aged German, or younger, i think i would be more mystified, even annoyed, and ask myself what provoked the UK politician to quote Hitler

It is more childish then anything else
 
Old Aug 12th 2013 | 2:07 pm
  #88  
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Default Re: bongo bongo land

Originally Posted by dbd33
How so? What I took from it was that some people mock Germans as Nazis. Well, yes, not fair, not reasonable, not surprising.
How open his comments were about the French. That's all I meant.
 
Old Aug 12th 2013 | 2:32 pm
  #89  
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Default Re: bongo bongo land

Originally Posted by caretaker
It does contradict the widely held belief that there is no such thing as assumed guilt, ie: All Germans are not Nazis. Children and grandchildren are not held responsible for the misdeeds of their ancestors. That anyone who would say Bongo Bongo Land would have put his foot in this as well is no surprise.
Obviously there's no suggestion of guilt regarding any Germans around now or suggestion that all Germans are Nazis. Shultz is happy enough to call opponents fascists when it suits him - ironic given his superstate objective.
 
Old Aug 12th 2013 | 2:42 pm
  #90  
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Default Re: bongo bongo land

Originally Posted by bats
That's because you think of race in old fashioned white folk black folk terms in a 19th century manner.
From Wikipedia.

The United Nations use the definition of racial discrimination laid out in the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, adopted in 1966:

… any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.(Part 1 of Article 1 of the U.N. International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination) [
A rather less political definition:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/racism
 


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