Re: Bizzare Tragedy in New Brunswick
 

While it is true that most reptiles are captive-reared, that doesn't make it right to do so.

Keeping a dog, cat, hamster or a small rodent is far from the same as keeping a reptile, as you will know, having kept them.

Reptiles should have a MUCH longer lifespan than these domestic pets, something which people do not seem to take into account when they buy them.
Even a small species like the commonly kept Ball Python (known also as a Royal python) can live for 30 years or more.

They can grow much larger, have much more specific requirements in terms of food and housing needs and cost a lot more in specialised vet bills if they get sick.

You might have kept them well, but the majority of people buying them as pets have them as a fad, they don't get cared for properly and then, if they survive that treatment, they get passed on after a few years (if that) to another clueless but well-meaning owner.

Learning about them while "on the job", probably means making mistakes which the poor animal had to endure.
Unlike many other domestic animals, snakes don't express pain, hunger or discomfort in a way laymen find easy to interpret, so they literally suffer in silence.
These animals should not be allowed as domestic pets IMHO.

Re: Bizzare Tragedy in New Brunswick
 

Good post. However, it could be that they don't actually experience "pain" as scientists have recently concluded with regard to fish.

Re: Bizzare Tragedy in New Brunswick
 

Pain is perhaps a too 'human' word.

Animals do not necessarily experience it as we do, but as they cannot express that verbally, they express it through behaviour.
It is quite difficult to establish one way or another in species whose behaviour is very different from our own whether they experience what we call pain.

They have nerves and a brain, so they can feel and process feeling.

They can also certainly experience physiological and psychological stress from things such as lack of food, temperature stress (too high or too low) poor environmental conditions such as lack of water and space and the presence of other individuals, incorrect handling, illness and infections etc.

Whether you call this 'pain' or not is a moot point.
It is adversely affecting the animal and, as such, it is suffering.

Re: Bizzare Tragedy in New Brunswick
 

The argument on pain and suffering is not as straight forward as it may seem.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/s...cientists.html

Nevertheless, as humans we generally (but not fanatically) ought to give the lesser creatures the benefit of doubt.

Re: Bizzare Tragedy in New Brunswick
 

One of the 'experts' quoted suggested that having fallen, the snake might 'latch' onto something to prevent further falling.

*****

Which raises the question about doing it a second time when no longer falling.

To expand on my earlier post, a different expert, apparently involved rather than offering opinion, said the police told him it escaped and went into the vent before.

It seems unlikely they would have known about it and done bugger all, what with the snake being illegal.

So, maybe the information about the previous escape came from the owner (who else would know that would have been on the scene so quickly?). Perhaps to make a particular version of events more plausible.

And if that's the idea, the real course of events must be "quite something" :unsure: if admitting to keeping an illegal animal carelessly once...and then repeating it.

Re: Bizzare Tragedy in New Brunswick
 

As I read this, I understood that the owner had registered his location with the local authorities as a small zoo, essentially, and he had been inspected as a routine several times and had been approved.
His keeping the snake was not, then, illegal.
Had he been a private owner without such license, then yes, it would have been illegal.

*Edit* Although, reading this update, (http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/a...-python-deaths) it appears they suspect he may have been keeping some of his animals illegally. How did they miss this when they were routinely checking his premises? *

Whichever "expert" thought that a snake of that size would grab a small boy to prevent it falling was no expert at all!
Firstly, the boy would have been dragged by such a large snake falling and would have had time to shout and raise the alarm.
Secondly, snakes have amazing abilities of control over most of their length, can support their weight on a surprisingly small part of their body and rarely "fall".

Re: Bizzare Tragedy in New Brunswick
 

I read that too. I also read that a few years ago the premises became a pet store and an entirely different set of rules applied and whatever needed to be issued to make it legal hadn't been.

Re: Bizzare Tragedy in New Brunswick
 

I see that there is a suggestion that the authorities placed the snake with the owner

Re: Bizzare Tragedy in New Brunswick
 

Reading the most recent article (which i think is what you are referring to), it seems the authorities took their eye off the ball when the place reverted to a pet shop.

They didn't check that the animals which had formed the collection were assessed and any which were not suitable for a private individual or for public sale were suitably relocated.

Had they done so, this wouldn't have happened.

Re: Bizzare Tragedy in New Brunswick
 

More news

Re: Bizzare Tragedy in New Brunswick
 

The snake came from Environment Canada in 2002.

"Johnson also confirmed to Global News on Wednesday that Environment Canada officials brought the African rock python to Savoie in 2002, after it was dropped off anonymously at the local SPCA."

http://globalnews.ca/news/769386/mis...cean-employee/

Re: Bizzare Tragedy in New Brunswick
 

There is much more to this story, as someone who has kept snakes for 40 years a python will not just kill 2 sleeping children or indeed any animal and not attempt to eat one, it just doesnt happen. Apparently there were no bites or other injuries. I would bet my house on the fact that the kids were murdered but certainly not killed by the snake.

Re: Bizzare Tragedy in New Brunswick
 

Good to hear an expert opinion. A very sad case indeed.

Re: Bizzare Tragedy in New Brunswick
 

The problem is that 'non snakey' people willjust look at the 'facts' in front of them and accept them becauce snakes are evil bloodthirsty creatures capable of anything. A python will not under any circumstances I have seen in 4 decades kill 2 animals it doesnt intend eating and if the animals are 2 big to eat which these children were they would be left alone. At worst the snake would have bitten the children in self defense but even then the snake would have had to have felt threatened which it wouldnt have been. Anyone with any knowledge of snake behaviour knows a constrictor wont constrict without biting and holding on. There are way too many holes in this story. It isvery very sad but the authorities should be looking for a human perpetrator.

Re: Bizzare Tragedy in New Brunswick
 

Ah, it's UtopianChris...I didn't recognise you (in the Maple Leaf). G'day. It does seem that there is more to the snake story than at first glance. Is the cause of childrens' death known? Do you think the python did anything at all or was it just placed in the room?