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Old May 6th 2011 | 9:03 am
  #166  
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Default Re: Bin Laden dead

Originally Posted by JamesM
Let's be honest Iain when have the United States ever been held accountable for anything????

But then it's easy to sit up here in Canada "The World's Peacekeeper" and be critical when it's known that big brother down south really deals with the problems.

Too many people on this forum have been hanging out with cradles too long.
Where does that title come from anyway? I have been a peacekeeper the world over, I never heard of it before I came here.
 
Old May 6th 2011 | 9:07 am
  #167  
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Default Re: Bin Laden dead

Originally Posted by JamesM

The world is a better place now he is dead and I am grateful that a message has been sent to his brothers of Jihad (or what ever they call themselves) that they are marked men.

The man was guilty with no remorse and every intention to keep killing- there is a point where even the most politically correct do gooder needs to understand that some people are just psycopathic.
Two points:

You dont think there is a danger that killing OBL might make the situation worse? After all, a western government taking unilateral action in a muslim state to kill a radical muslim pretty much backs up everything OBL said about the west, and is quite likely to create a whole bunch of other radical muslims hell bent on revenge for what they will see a martyr to the illegal high handed action of the infidel?

Yes, some people are psychopaths, but last time I checked there was due legal process afforded to psychopaths before they got locked up to protect society, they are not just done away with cos its for the greater good.

Last edited by iaink; May 6th 2011 at 9:40 am.
 
Old May 6th 2011 | 9:07 am
  #168  
 
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Default Re: Bin Laden dead

Originally Posted by JamesM
In essence you agree with Wikileaks. All of that top secret information belongs in the public domain...........
I don't expect to know how the operation was conducted until some time has passed. But the aims and goals should be available for public scrutiny. The US isn't a military dictatorship.

Originally Posted by greentea3


Here we go again.

So it's kind of back to the Assange thing again. You're demanding the right to know what the millitary does but let me guess, you wouldn't be happy for the public to know what you do and the choices you make and your income and what kegs you wear etc etc
This is particularly ignorant. It's actually quite funny. Go away and think about who funds my life choices and who funds the governments.

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
They aren't Teletubbies, they are soldiers; specifically, they are soldiers trained for operations that are perceived to be too difficult for regulars.

I suspect that, if you asked them, they would say that they did what they had to. Maybe, you would prefer it if one of them had "bought it" to justify their action. They will be sleeping in their beds without regret.

The whole thing is analogous to the Rock of Gibraltar incident involving the Regiment.

Unfortunately and rarely, such action is required. If those bent on mass murder would paint themselves with a big red target, refuse to hide among civilians, put down their weapons when requested to do so and operate within the law that they expect to be applied to themselves, such action would not be required.

Here is a question for the hand wringers amonst us: Would it have been OK to shoot OBL had he been armed? Why?
You are all entirely missing the point. If they had been sent to apprehend him and he was killed in that process, even if he was unarmed, then fair enough. I don't care how the soldiers on the ground acted on the mission, I care about what their orders were. We are being told by the US government that the marines or whatever were sent on a "kill mission". This isn't the heat of battle - this is deliberately setting out to murder somebody.

And as for this being out in the open. Yes, some things are required for operation secrecy etc, however the military takes it's orders from a civilian government. Somebody ok'd the operation to get him and what it would entail - this process and the decision made should be public.

I don't get you people. It not only appears that you are willing to let the state perform extra-judicial killings, you are also happy for the military to conduct them in secret without the public ever being told about the aims or motives behind their operations. Does democracy mean nothing at all to you lot?
 
Old May 6th 2011 | 9:09 am
  #169  
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Default Re: Bin Laden dead

Originally Posted by JamesM
Let's be honest Iain when have the United States ever been held accountable for anything????

But then it's easy to sit up here in Canada "The World's Peacekeeper" and be critical when it's known that big brother down south really deals with the problems.

Too many people on this forum have been hanging out with cradles too long.

They created the problem. Whether its communism or Islamism they need to demonize 'other' ideologies to justify their own.
 
Old May 6th 2011 | 9:09 am
  #170  
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Default Re: Bin Laden dead

Originally Posted by Alan2005
Does not democracy mean nothing at all to you lot?
If you think you live in a democracy, it's you who's being the naive one, Alan.
 
Old May 6th 2011 | 9:09 am
  #171  
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Default Re: Bin Laden dead

Originally Posted by iaink
In short, there should be accountability, thats the difference between the actions of a democracy, and the likes of OBL.
First and foremost, the US president is accountable to the US. He's number one concern is the safety and wellbeing of the US population. OBL was a threat to the country, and he's now been removed. The Attorney General, as has already been quoted on this forum, is satisfied that the process was legal and proper.
 
Old May 6th 2011 | 9:12 am
  #172  
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Default Re: Bin Laden dead

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
Where does that title come from anyway? I have been a peacekeeper the world over, I never heard of it before I came here.
Many of the cradle's I know have spent copious amounts of time bending my ear about how pivotal they are in global affairs and charitable donations etc.....I actually don't know where it originated but I do know that several Canadian's have written book's available at Indigo stating that Canadian's who believe that are deluding themselves.

I do know back in the day Canada had the 4th largest army in the world......no doubt those were the days.

Last edited by JamesM; May 6th 2011 at 11:02 am.
 
Old May 6th 2011 | 9:12 am
  #173  
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Default Re: Bin Laden dead

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
Here's a thought: Maybe intelligence came to the powers that be indicating where OBL was. The top levels of Government decided to task their armed forces to try and "arrest" him. The top brass called in their specialist unit and tasked them to do so. The senior people in specialist unit tasked a number of individuals to attempt the mission, leaving decisions as to how to do so to the team. The team on the ground reacted to what happened.

Some people, that had no real idea as to what happened, then start stating that this and that happened, all the while, the people that know aren't even questioned.

Bored people on internet fora come up with lots of flowery theories about what happened and get into petty arguments about who is correct ...
All sounds highly plausible to me.
I notice "arrest" is in quote marks.

It just beats me though what the legal grounds were.
There was no state of war in existence to justify a military action, and no jurisdiction for the americans to make an arrest as far as I can tell. Unlike you though, I am not a lawyer.
 
Old May 6th 2011 | 9:13 am
  #174  
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Default Re: Bin Laden dead

Originally Posted by Oink
They created the problem. Whether its communism or Islamism they need to demonize 'other' ideologies to justify their own.
I agree that they created the problem. I think Bin Laden started to turn when the west changed their stance towards the Taliban.
 
Old May 6th 2011 | 9:13 am
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Default Re: Bin Laden dead

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
If you think you live in a democracy, it's you who's being the naive one, Alan.
Well he does live in B.C. mind.
 
Old May 6th 2011 | 9:17 am
  #176  
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Default Re: Bin Laden dead

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
If you think you live in a democracy, it's you who's being the naive one, Alan.
I don't think 'a democracy' exists as a one-best-system, its a process or a set of principles that simply means rule by the people/demos and not ruled by a single or even a few rich twats.
 
Old May 6th 2011 | 9:26 am
  #177  
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Default Re: Bin Laden dead

Originally Posted by Oink
I don't think 'a democracy' exists as a one-best-system, its a process or a set of principles that simply means rule by the people/demos and not ruled by a single or even a few rich twats.
I agree. And as somebody pointed out above, 'the people', it would appear, are pretty glad that Bin Laden has been dealt with.
 
Old May 6th 2011 | 9:38 am
  #178  
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Default Re: Bin Laden dead

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
I agree. And as somebody pointed out above, 'the people', it would appear, are pretty glad that Bin Laden has been dealt with.
That’s why we write down the rules and regulations in documents to stop mobs running riot on whims, otherwise you’d have tyranny by the majority. Obama was simply taking revenge, that's not lawful or advisable.
 
Old May 6th 2011 | 9:43 am
  #179  
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Default Re: Bin Laden dead

Originally Posted by Oink
That’s why we write down the rules and regulations in documents to stop mobs running riot on whims, otherwise you’d have tyranny by the majority. Obama was simply taking revenge, that's not lawful or advisable.
It's probably not as bad as starting wars.
 
Old May 6th 2011 | 9:49 am
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Default Re: Bin Laden dead

Who should we be looking for the Americans kill next? Answers on a postcard to; President Murderous Bastard, A White House, America.
 


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