BABY P
 

Just a bit of info for anyone who has heard this really heartbreaking story of little baby p. There is a blue balloon release scheduled for Dec 3rd outside 10 Downing street in London. I know many people would like to be there but unfortunately are not going to be able to. You can send blue balloons and they will blow them up and release them for you, on the day. The address to send the balloons to is:

Angelica Terzoli, c/o Baron Estates,
65, Weymouth Street,
London,
W1G 8NU
England

Please support this worthwhile cause, all abused children deserve to be heard.

Thanks:thumbsup:

Re: BABY P
 

ahhh you beat me to it :eek:
i tried to post earlier and it kept kicking me out, ours are done for tomorrow

i hope they fill the sky in the uk, it would be good if expats sent the ballons :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Good post :wub:

Re: BABY P
 

Cheers hun, ours are all ready for the off tomorrow as well.:thumbsup: This is really something that we all need to get behind, it is time this situation was never allowed to happen again.....

Thanks everyone:wub:

Re: BABY P
 

Hmm, I agree but don't hold out much hope. This is just the last in a string of these incidents and the one before this was not that long ago.

Re: BABY P
 

Yes i know, the lessons weren't learnt from that case although they certainly should have been. We can't keep standing by and doing nothing, i just hope if everyone gets behind this situation, it will be seen that the majority of the population worldwide has a voice against it and then the people who are supposed to be in charge, and ultimately take the responsibility, will have to do something more than they have done. I just hope that these changes happen quickly to save any other children going through this, we have had enough of the discussions in parliment..........the time has come for severe action, maybe we need to show them that we want what is right, we have been silent far too long!

Sorry for the rant, but this is something that we should NEVER give up as a lost cause.

Re: BABY P
 

Anyone who works in community based professions is aware this is, just another, however, surely we should feel emotive by the brutal loss of any innocent, vulnerable persons life.

I agree with your Rainey, this is one instance where people should unite, feel outraged and speak up. Maybe if more had of done that to start, Baby P would be alive today......

Mrs M.

Re: BABY P
 

OK, I'll get shot for this but how will letting off blue balloons outside of Downing Street contribute to reducing violence against children?

I also wish they'd chosen a different letter. I can't help myself smirking when everyone goes on about Baby P.

Re: BABY P
 

Actually I get your point Novocastrian, but I think it's excellent that there is public discourse about this case, much better than the alternative.

Mrs M x

Re: BABY P
 

IMO, it won't.

I think it just allows people to think that they're actually helping.

I'm wondering who will be cleaning up the mess. All that plastic waste ending up in the environment... some cute baby animals will surely suffer.

Re: BABY P
 

The Colombi kid (or however it's spelt)? Yeah I thought it was quite recent too, but then I read in the paper it was ten years ago apparently! Feels like yesterday...

Re: BABY P
 

Eight years. Victoria Climbie was murdered in 2000, but the report into her death wasn't published til 2003 which is probably why it feels more recent.

Re: BABY P
 

The P stands for the babys name, that is why they picked it, if the goverment would get this sorted now then maybe it will save another life in the future.

As a mother i would do anything for my children, to see this happen to a child or baby breaks my heart. if i could be there on the day i would be, just to stand up and help, but sadly i cant

I was once told that a local planning application would be passed no matter what i did, i believe that you need to stand up and be counted, those who helped on that helped get the planning application turned down and in a way that when it went to appeal it was refused again

if we sit here in our little lives and do nothing then this will carry on happening, rainey is correct for posting this and if it means one ballon or a billion ballons, maybe seeing them may make a difference.

For the sake of the children who go through this, everyone stands togeather and stuff can be changed.....just needs to be shouted louder and harder sometimes....

rant over.............

Re: BABY P
 

Isn't it about increasing public awareness? Child abuse is not something that most people want to think about. Some may even brush it under the mental carpet, if they believe it's happening. Ramming the message home may cause such people to act while there is still time.

What's your opinion of the Amber Alert system?

Re: BABY P
 

What do many people do to act? They send balloons through the post... "I've done my bit to help bring awareness to child abuse" and that ends their participation in that cause. In many instances, it is effectively sweeping it under a mental carpet.

And really, who is unaware of violence against children anyways?

Re: BABY P
 

I understand your cynicism. But, what if raising awareness causes just one person to not look the other way and not make a fuss and not get involved and just one child is saved? Just one?

Re: BABY P
 

The thing is Souv is that I think we are all aware it goes on. But I am inclined to agree with HWP on this one.

The however many thousands of members of the general public that are releasing baloons were not the ones in the position to do anything about it were they, so raising Joe publics awareness isn't going to help.

And tbh if someone wants to hide something - anything - then they can use very devious methods to do so, from child abuse to eating choccie when you're on a diet.

I think all the balloon floating is going to do is to make social workers more afraid of f****g up, and if it does THAT, then its achieved something. But there could be a flip side and we could all of a sudden see cases where wolf is cried and then theres a public outcry the other way.

This event was an absolute tragedy - but unfortunately bad things happen :(

Re: BABY P
 

It's worth it if it does, but I doubt it will. You have only to read some of the comments on these fora a few weeks ago when we were discussing smacking children. A fair few on here didn't want to interfere.

I am also cynical that some of the balloon releasers want to apportion blame and name and blame culprits rather than consider the system and that the social and health workers did their best.

Innocent til proven guilty should apply to these workers too.

Re: BABY P
 

I am really sorry if my thread has caused an arguement:confused:.......that was not what it was for, it was purely information posted for people who wanted to take part but were not able to. You can keep burying your head in the sand and ignore what is going on, but as a mother i feel i can't any longer. It is nothing to do with aportioning the blame and it is not meant to exacerbate any situation, mearly to bring this case to peoples attention. If it just means that we feel that we have done a bit to help......however small........then this just may save a childs life. I think we are all capable of sweeping things under a "mental carpet", but is there not a point where we have to say enough is enough.:confused: I am sure some peoples attitudes would be changed if it was their child in danger, and i hope with all my heart that it never is.

Re: BABY P
 

Some of us don't need to be a mother to keep our head out of the sand.

Re: BABY P
 

The thread hasn't caused an arguement Rainey just a difference of opinion which is normal for so many people in one place!

However the last statement implies that those who are not releasing balloons or falling over themselves to support the cause are in some way less shocked than those that are.

Believe you me theres not a logical person alive that doesn't feel horrified at what that baby went through, but to suggest that their opinion would somehow change if it were their child is completely inaccurate.

I will be an example - I have children, I don't join groups for anything or release ballons, but would gladly reverse an 18 wheeler over the people that did this to their child. Some people deal with things in a different way to others and also can accept that **** ups happen. No matter how awful the situation is, it will be dealt with, no matter how many balloons are released.

And as a point of ref if it were any of our children that this happened to, surely we would then be the perpetrators and therefore wish as little publicity on the case as possible. (splitting hairs I know but you know what I mean!)

Re: BABY P
 

I think balloon releasing is a hollow gesture. It's like having a fake ribbon the back of your car, something saying you spent two dollars on breast cancer research or autism awareness or support for killing people in Afghanistan; it means nothing except that you probably dither at the lights.

Depending on which paper you read, one or two children in the UK die at the hands of their parents every single week. I've no reason to think the numbers would be proportionately better in Canada. I don't think we individually can do much about the general problem; balloons and ribbons aren't in the room with the angry parent. I think it's enough that we look after our own children.

Re: BABY P
 

I do Mandy and please rest assured that comment has obviously come out wrong, i am not implying anything by it and am not judging, just simply putting forward my point of view as well. I am just trying to do this in the best and most peaceful way i know how, this post was only ever for information, i never wanted any replies to it in case things got a bit heated.........this is not what i want, it is just to point out that there is something being done and to let people know they can help if they want. :wub::wub::thumbsup:

Re: BABY P
 

So wearing a poppy on rememberance is awaste as well then and totally waste of dollars that i put in the tin :confused:

i am sending ballons to say that my family totally support the group that are standing up and trying to change things.
ok im no longer in the uk, but i was in shock when i read the full story about this and for the parents not to get life has just shown what the system has become.....

rainey put this on expats to advise other parents of the ballon release in the uk and not to start all this.

Baby p did not ask for what he got and neither do other kids that are put through this on a daily basis, if we can bring more people togeather and help, is that not better :confused:
is that not what we do here on the forum everday, help others do the move like we have done :confused:

to tell the truth some of the responses on here has shocked me :curse:

Re: BABY P
 

I know Rainey am just playing devils advocate as usual. It has to be a huge comfort to those directly affected by this sort of thing that so many people are up in arms, but as DBD said maybe 2 per week die at the hands of parents and the ones that on the whole are sending the ballons are not the ones that need educating to be better parents. :wub:


It doesn't shock me - although as I said before many people act / react / support in their own way. If sending balloons is your thing then thats the way you do it. Don't be angry or shocked as I don't believe as I said before that anyone on here condones what happened - just that they choose to show there sympathies in a different way :wub:

If the balloons are an act of rememberance then all well and good - but marching on Downing street won't bring him back - again as I said before an inquiry will be held anyway and no doubt heads will roll, but at the risk of upsetting those that I do class as friends - buying ballons and ribbons in my opinion (and just mine) is an act of "awww poor you - heres a spare thought and i'll then get along with my day" how many feel strongly enough to become social workers or to campaign fearlessly til the end of time :confused::confused: My guess is only the ones that have had it happen directly to them.

And i'm not meaning to upset anyone thats just my take on it - and thats why we have discussions because there are differing opinions.

I think it was lovely of Rainey to put something on here because SHE felt (as do the others who have avatars in support of the cause) that it was the right thing for THEM to do.:wub:

Re: BABY P
 

i know what you mean mandi :wub::wub:

i just used the poppy as a quote, as that is something else i feel strong for, both in the uk and here in canada ;)

if i could help kids who go through this kind of stuff more i would and it is a plan that i will do later once we are more settled here, as i have done in the uk, but at the moment my babys need me.

Sadly the people that allowed this to happen and the people that did this to the poor baby will get away with it and people in the uk are trying to stop this from happening again, if it means all them meeting at downing street or letting the ballons off i will support them as knowing the social services ways, it needs to be more sorted and although one rule is in one area, sadly it is not in another area of the country, i have worked with social workers and know what a hard job they have, but something was missing with this baby and needs addressing quick.

i am following this story as it is dear to my heart as well as others on here, i suppose a few ballons wont make that much difference, but could you imagine if they received billions of ballons or more names on there petitions..........maybe one day it could change, we have to have hope ;)

Re: BABY P
 

I know Gill, but how on earth can people change the actions of lunatic parents :( It is unfortunately a sad fact that there are people in the world that do these sh1tty things. How can that ever be changed - remember that guy who chopped the head off the other guy on the bus??? No mental background no nothing - how can you stop something you don't know is gonna happen.

Some would say parenting classes, but then didn't some teachers (ONLY used as an example proffession) go to uni to train to be teachers then end up abusing the kids they were supposed to be teaching. Point being only an individual knows whats insode them - no-one else.

Terrible stuff happens everyday - and all we can really do is sympathise - because it always will happen - no matter how many safeguards are in place.

Someone mentioned the Breast Cancer - if you want to support that then thats more identifiable than a retarded person hell bent on doing harm to someone (not that I support that either ftr)

Am gonna stop now :cool:

Re: BABY P
 

The fundamental error here is the supposition that the "social worker" should be able to do anything about parental violence. I think that's a fallacy. I have a mad child here now, I could beat her or shoot her or whatever, who's to know? Social workers become engaged too late and can do too little; the fact of it is that we can only look after our own children. Abusers probably don't care what the world thinks of them or what their fate might be so it's not easy to pressure them to behave better. I'm comfortable with Mandy's policy of running an 18 wheeler over them but the problem is that, by the time they're discovered, the damage is done.

Re: BABY P
 

It won't make an iota of difference. The average member of the public is not remotely interested in abuse that goes on under their noses, in their own families or in the families next door. The sanctimonious outcry over the latest reported death is almost as sickening as the death of the child himself. Many more children die than the public know about, many more still live in horrendous situations that no one does anything about. Next time some self serving idiot bleats on about someone else "not doing their job" or "their rights" or my all time favourite, UK's "nanny state", I will scream. Just think what could be done if workers in the UK could really just walk into your home and take a child out like they do here. All of you whining on about the failures of the system would be the first to complain that the "state" had too much power.

Re: BABY P
 

agree with that dbd33 totally
sad that the social worker didnt listen to police when they was involved, i suppose if they learnt by this case and it is kept in the media, then some other baby/child can be saved

way to late for this baby, my kids send me lala most days, but i would never hurt any of them, just a shame that there is people out there that will stoop so low, shame as well that they are not getting the right sentance either :curse:

i know that they would be a good line to pull the plug.....but i will read from afair and see if there is anything that i can do to help ;)

Re: BABY P
 

I had to google, http://www.amberalert.gov/pdfs/07_amber_report.pdf

This seems to be a well thought out coordinated interagency scheme to facilitate response in cases of child abduction under circumstances with potential for violence. I strongly approve of it.

The system was activated ~180 times in 2007 which suggests though that the effect is more on recovery rate (80% within 72 hours) than prevention. The pdf doesn't mention what the recovery rate was before the scheme was put in place, nor how many successful recoveries were a result of public awareness/participation. I'm happy to concede though that if only one child was rescued, it's worth it.

It doesn't seem very relevant to the blue balloons.

Re: BABY P
 

Yep, a lot of it ends up in the oceans where turtles, sea birds and whales/dolphins ingest it and then starve or choke to death. There was a documentary recently that showed huge amounts of animals dying in the Pacific and one of the contributory factors was the increase in balloon releases.

It's 4 kids and 2 women who on average die each week due to violence from relatives, I often wonder why only the occasional case gets a reaction? Bored media that day?

Re: BABY P
 

Because of the extreme nature of his poor little life, No life should be lost through violence and if this helps people stop and take notice even if one life is saved or one child is spared a life like babyP then it is worth the effort

My sons school is wearing Blue today for baby P
It heart wrenching to think of the awful life he had,
The only comfort for the poor little thing is he is no longer enduring the pain :wub:

Re: BABY P
 

with no disrespect intended, but you being a mother gives your opinion no more or less value than a member who has not had a child, or is male and has had a child.

While I agree that all children should be wanted, loved and cherished, I'm not sure how much godo this action will do, and I personally find the phrase 'as a ......xyz' always sounds extremely patronising to those who are not xyz.

Re: BABY P
 

i'm not going to go into huge details on a public forum about my own situation as a child but lets just say that i'm now 46 and nothing in fact has changed from when i was a child under the care of social services, along with my two brothers......i have just read some 'shocking' details from my records that i requested, that my mind was aware of but not the 'details'......and again, lets just say.....shame on society! we learn nothing over the years, either about these issues regarding children, or wars, terroism, colour of peoples skin etc etc......shame on human's really!!!!!

Re: BABY P
 

It was an attempt on my part to suggest that there is value to be had from raising public awareness of such issues, even if the methods used are rather cheesy. Do not underestimate the power of symbols and colour in human psychology. Marketers use it lots.

Re: BABY P
 

and yet I read one report that said the case worker wanted the child taken from the mother but was overuled. So lets not judge "the social worker" and "them"" until the facts are known.

So you have a neighbour who has a dirty child, not just one who hase been in the mud, but ingrained, lack of care, lack of love, but no bruises. The child is often hungry, or seen eating crisps and chocolate, is left on his/her own, has few toys. What do you think then? what do you do? Send up a blue balloon?

Re: BABY P
 

What is it you think is being marketed? Or, come to think of it, symbolized?

Re: BABY P
 

I know the OP and she did not mean it that way, it really doesnt matter if you have children or not, male or female, if you support this then please do something, ok the ballons may not be the best answer, but that is what one person is doing, there is many other groups that are doing other things, if people stand togeather and try, maybe and i say maybe something may happen ;)


agree totally, its the awareness that makes the difference.
The OP was bring to the attention of other expats that there is a group that is trying to do something, if you don't like the idea that is fine, but honestly its about others, something that most of us do everyday on here.

Its good to see that everyone thinks different and has different options on the matter, i don't expect to change your option and thus you will never change mine, my ballons have been sent off and i will still carry on helping if i can with this, its not just for the poor baby that died its for others that are in the system.
like gibbs said thinks have not changed over years, WHY...because people don't fight for it, maybe by doing this it may help others, maybe not, but its worth the trying :blink:

Re: BABY P
 

Things havent changed over the years because most people don't want to "interfere", to stick their head above the parapet.

Re: BABY P
 

Essentially what moondevil said. What is being marketed is a concept, if you will. It's easier to fix the concept in people's brains if it is linked to a symbol, particularly one that is very simple and easy to remember. Blue is a good choice of colour in this case, BTW.