Re: BABY P
 

Then perhaps they should be encouraged to interfere.

Re: BABY P
 

Maybe its about time people did and maybe this could do it..MAYBE not

but hell its worth a try....i know facebook is getting good response, so heres keeping our fingers crossed, but i wont hold my breath ehhh :blink:

Re: BABY P
 

They should, but my feeling on this on is that the changes are expected from government not by us the population. Something must be done indeed, but we all have a responsibility, not just laying it at No 10's door and saying "sort it".

Re: BABY P
 

Maybe I'm being thick? But what is the concept? I doubt that the idea of opposition to violence against babies is an especially hard sell. Is the concept that selling a lot of balloons and having a media orgy is a cathartic thing to be involved in? As fledermaus said, it's down to everyone to keep an eye out for this stuff and to speak up. But it won't happen.

Re: BABY P
 

Because it's the colour of bruises?

Re: BABY P
 

Of course people know that violence against babies is a bad thing but what is wrong with reinforcing the message?

Re: BABY P
 

Of course there's nothing especially wrong with it. It just will have zero influence on the next sociopath in charge of a baby. Someone upthread indicated 4 kids and 2 women per week are killed by family members. I've no idea if that is right though.

I don't want to offend anyone: you're doing no harm (except to the marine environment), just as no particular harm was done by piling huge numbers of bouquets on Princess Di flower mountains. Pretty much the same mass hysteria.

Re: BABY P
 

Totally agree.

It serves no purpose other than to provide a means for people to publicly empathise with a sad situation. The increase in media coverage & analysis in the satellite and internet era means that we "know" much more about much more, yet are still as impotent as we ever were to change or prevent such tragedies.

For me, all these campaigns are a bit like church - I personally don't get it, but participation seems to make a lot of people feel better about something they can't change.

Re: BABY P
 

Why cant we change it??
Blue was picked as the baby was a boy, the name baby p was done as the babys name began with p, tried to hide his real name in the media but didnt work :unsure:

if we all hide behind our nice safe doors, keep our nice options to ourselfs then debate is not good :confused:
then forums like this wouldnt be about, then we'd be back to years ago, sorry but by debating this subject you are actually helping to keep this to people attention and it good that you have an option, maybe advise the people that organised the ballons of your feeling, but also advise a better route that they can take ;)

Re: BABY P
 

all of this is good stuff.....debate, balloons, sponsored walks, prayers in church......it's great that it will give the poor little mite some purpose to his tiny part in life, however miserable a time he had......but what about afterwards? what about when the balloons have popped and lay sitting in a field or worse, ingested by some poor passing creature, who is now also dead.....who will clear up the mess and who will still care and debate it all in the future......not many intruth! we'll all shut our doors and close our curtains and pretend that we all did our bit; we paid for a balloon afterall! what more could we have done? we said our prays in church and we bought cakes at the local school, made by mothers who actually just care that 'there by the grace of god' it didn't really effect me....me and my family are all okay.....

i bet if in 2 years time, i posted a thread about baby p, most wouldn't know what i was talking about.......'cos by then it will be baby t or baby j etc....

don't get me wrong, i'm all for awareness but awarness don't stop it.......you have to be brave and be counted, stand out in the crowd, notice the kid who's the quiet one, the one who won't join in, got a 'strange' manner about them and report it......you'll be mocked, laughed at, questioned yourself but if your right?......what if your wrong! oh! the shame of it all.........back to just buying the balloon then, done my bit!......

Re: BABY P
 

Where do we send the balloons for the thousands of african babies which die in a similar fashion to? Those of course never get mentioned in the media...

Re: BABY P
 

I CRIED MY HEART OUT FOR THIS BABY. HE WAS SO BEAUTIFULL.
I STILL CAN'T WATCH OR READ ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
I ONLY KNOW THE BASIC STORY. AND THAT IS ALL I WANT TO KNOW.

GOD BLESS YOU BABY P
YOU WERE TOO PRECIOUS FOR THIS WORLD.

I HOPE THOSE RESPONSIBLE DIE A CRUEL. PAINFULL DEATH.
I WISH I COULD GET MY HANDS ON THEM FOR 2 MINUTES.
I PRAY THIS NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN

I HAD TO GET THAT OFF MY CHEST. IT IS ALL BUILT UP INSIDE AND NO WHERE TO GO.

GOD BLESS YOU BABY P XXXXXXXX

Re: BABY P
 

Is parental abuse a significant cause of death among African babies? It's not obvious to me that it would be a bigger problem than starvation, disease or war.

Re: BABY P
 

Excuse me but did i not say ALL abused children deserve to be heard........and what is live aid and comic relief etc all in aid of i ask you. I feel the situation in Africa is always at the very forefront of the media, and also rightly so.

Re: BABY P
 

This really is a very odd post, has it somehow strayed over here from the BNP thread?

Re: BABY P
 

Very good point......i was wondering that myself!!!!:)

Re: BABY P
 

I found the news shocking, devasting and revolting but unfortunately this crime still goes on. When I used to work for Social Workers some of the case notes I used to have to type up made my blood boil and in some cases the social workers had their hands tied with human rights crap etc. It was very hard for some of these social workers to protect these children as they were up against stupid rules and regulations. The law needs to take a firm hand and make changes that give social workers more power and allow the good ones to do their job. Even children that they did manage to take away from parents were encouraged to still keep contact with their parents allbeit supervised. The law needs to punish these sick human beings harshly and not keep letting them get away with murder.:curse:

Instead of sending balloons in remembrance every social worker and police officer should protest and make a stand so other babies and children can be protected but unfortunately in the real world it won't happen and more devasting situations will occur again unless things change. And another thread will be posted in remembrance for another babyxyz or child, this is the harsh reality and the cruel world we live in.

I would rather see lessons learnt once and for all and a change in the law that will undoubtedly protect any baby/child that might be in danger, as a mark of respect then a balloon ceremony that will in time be forgotten.

I don't usually like to get into heated debates but this one is just too close to my heart:(

Re: BABY P
 

Here in the UK my job is a curriculum manager for courses aimed at support staff that work in in primary and secondary schools. As part of the training we offer child protection and safeguarding. At present, and I work for one of the largest councils in the UK, the training for safeguarding is required to take place every three years, and as a result many staff 'slip through the loop'. It is not a compulsory part of the qualifications we offer, however I have made it a compulsory part of the training for all of my learners, which are now in excess of 400 per year.
You may wonder why I say all this...
As many of the previous posts have highlighted, cases like baby P happen because human beings are expected to make a judgement. I believe they can only do this if they are properly trained and yes, it doesn't take much of a 'judgement' when one is faced with a child that is so obviously suffering, but when you combine this with context and circumstance it is not always that straightforward. In my line of work I have discussed child protection with many different child protection officers in the police and social work. I have come across some who I believe would make and have made very sound judgements about individual cases, and I have equally come across those that I feel have made poor decisions. It all comes down to the fact that we are human and capable of making errors. The only way forward is for sound legislation, a well trained and resourced system in place to enforce that legislation, and a well trained and resourced team of staff at ground level. At the end of the day it comes down to money as so many things do...

Re: BABY P
 

Which is a crying shame and in my opinion plays with victims lives and these tradegies crop time and time again

Re: BABY P
 

Which is a crying shame and in my opinion plays with victims lives and these tradegies crop time and time again

Absolutely.
I work with some people who are passionate about preventing another 'baby p', and they work very hard to ensure they follow best practice. Unfortuntely their efforts are often hampered by a lack of resources. With regard to training in schools, they have to target their efforts at schools in special measures that have a high staff turnover as they do not have enough money to cover all schools. We have almost 600 schools in our borough, a lot of staff to train and keep up to date and it is a crying shame that lack of appropriate training in this vital area comes down to money.

I do agree with some of the other posts in that it is very important to raise awareness. The more people that are informed, the less likely a situation is 'missed', 'overlooked' or 'ignored'. One can only hope that this time lessons really will be learned from the death of this poor, poor child and the government wakes up to the fact that it needs to throw some serious money at the whole area of social work and review the legislation that so often ties their hands.

Re: BABY P
 

I absolutely agree with you instead of sweeping it under the carpet that now things should be taken seriously or otherwise this will continue and continue. Also more funding invested into child protection courses etc and resources and training should be reviewed more regularly. This should be made compulsory for any new social worker, trainee basically anyone who works with children on a day to day basis. The tighter the regime is hopefully will in turn reduce the risk of these incidences falling through the net.

I also agree with some of the other posts that it is important to raise awareness but unfortunately this is still not enough in protecting these poor innocent children/babies.

Re: BABY P
 

Sorry if this has been said didnt read through ALL of the replies.

Though banned by the judge
the mothers,partner and logders names have been posted all
over the net apparently.

Good or Bad ?

Re: BABY P
 

Not sure on that one......on one hand it could be a case of name and shame......after doing this to a 17 month old baby and not being charged with murder :confused:, only because the jury couldn't decide who dealt the final blow, why should they be protected by the law? The law didn't really protect Baby P, but i do understand how difficult it was for the professionals who were involved. On the other it could spark a serious vendetta......2 wrongs don't make a right but some would take it on themselves to dish out their own brand of justice. I do think it's a very difficult one to answer being that the case really is sickening and will bring out raw emmotion in people.

Re: BABY P
 

The vendetta part is a very real possibity. I see there is a facebook site saying the social workers should be sacked. It's very worrying where all this will lead.

Re: BABY P
 

I look forward to the flurry of applications to become CP social workers in the UK. There will no doubt be a line up of people who think they can do better. 99% of them will leave skid marks out of the car park the first time they get verbally or physically attacked, stuck with a needle, have their cars wrecked, their own kids targeted at school and their private lives invaded. All for at least 25% less than the average wage for degree qualified professionals in other fields. This thread really should be closed, it serves no real purpose.

Re: BABY P
 

eh :confused:

At the risk of sounding blasé a vibrator without batteries serves no real purpose - but this thread has gotten people talking about real issues, agreeing, disagreeing, and questioning - we are in The Maple Leaf where the majority of threads don't actually make a great deal of sense, but this one has.

Re: BABY P
 

This thread has stirred up peoples raw emotions and allowing people to air their views as this crime against a little innocent human being has sickened the nation. I feel this has a real purpose and is a good debate unlike some of the other threads on the Maple Leaf where an OP spelling has been criticised on their post. That to me has no purpose as long as it can be read.

Re: BABY P
 

Does it really though? Most people seem still to be on a witch hunt against social workers, health workers, "them" and few seem to want to accept that sometimes shit happens. When something terrible like this happens, you can't say it's one person's fault, its an accumulation of actions, system failure. But somewhere at the root of it all is us, people, that we stick our heads in the sand and blame others and not take action ourselves. By action I don't mean some polluting balloons in a empty political gesture.

Re: BABY P
 

I suppose my point is to disagree with Dingbat that this thread serves no real purpose. For heavens sake you look at some of the threads we partake in lol. At least with this one there are real feelings and opinions being put across.

The issue I am addressing is not the one that thinks the thread can do anything about the BabyP scenario - more so that why should the thread be stopped just BECAUSE it can't do anything. Thats just silly ;)

Re: BABY P
 

Yes, I see what you mean about the subject matter, it is rather more serious than most of the stuff we join in on here, but is that a "real" purpose?

Maybe it will make someone somewhere take action when they think something is wrong.

It's worth remembering that while Baby P was failed here, many children aren't.

Re: BABY P
 

I don't think it matters whether its a real purpose or not - ultimately its brought lots of us into a discussion about something topical - as opposed to a select few about something nonsensical!!!! :thumbup:

Re: BABY P
 

what are you trying to say mandi....that my naughty room thread wasn't good, or the pub thread was no good....

(only joking...we need to discuss anything on here, is that not why its an open forum ;))

Re: BABY P
 

hehe they were better than some of the sh*t i've started over the course of my membership!

Re: BABY P
 

Butch come back from Texas........you are needed!!!!!

Another thread bites the dust!!!!!:rofl::rofl::p