bakedbean

There was some good info re electricity in the closed Salaries topic. Ahem....somewhat off topic, so I thought I'd copy and paste some of it here so it doesn't get lost. Hope that is OK with the posters.

Gunnar45 posted the current electricity rates for domestic users (as at April 2015) which were:
kWh RM/kWh
</= 200 0.218
201-300 0.334
301-600 0.516
601-900 0.546
901 - 0.571

Gunnar45 also said:
We rarely come over RM 100:- per month since we installed inverter type A/C's in our bedroom and in the guest room.
But we run A/C only at nights in the bedroom, set to 25 or 26C which we find is enough to keep the air dry.
The rest we manage with open windows and electric fans.
Other major electricity consumers are washing machine (water heating type), storage tank type water heater for showers (switched on 10-15 min per day) and an inverter type refrigerator.

bakedbean

Our electricity costs in the BB household is rather more than the above as we have a couple of aircon units going full time, though only at 25 or 26 degrees. Having said that, our electricity bills are still cheaper than when we lived in Thailand and Singapore.

I suspect we would be wise to change over to inverter type aircons one of these fine days. Unfortunately the crap aircon units came with the condo unit.

Gunnar45

Its not that expensive to change, around 3000RM for a Panasonic 2.0HP Econavi Inverter and less for the 1.5HP. This including the works.
You should ensure that the dimensioning is proper for the room size.
If you want, I'll pm you the details of the guy who did it, I am very happy with his workmanship.
And since you have a couple of AC's going full time, you will quite soon have recovered the costs.

bakedbean

Oh yes please. I'll have a chat with Mr bb about it.

Davita

A split single-speed A/C has an average efficient life of 6-7 years.
An inverter type A/C is at least 30-40% more efficient than a single-speed type.
So, time to freshen up on math BB to see if it's worth replacing and when.
I agree with Gunner that it's very important to get the right BTU size of A/C for the size and location of the room.
The inverter type is also much quieter, if that's an issue, as single-speed A/Cs are noisy when the solenoid clicks in and out...I'm lucky that my compressors are on the roof, and shaded with a cover, so cannot hear.
Some single-speed types have a light to see when the compressor is actually working....which is when major electricity is consumed. The inverter type compressor runs all the time, just at different speeds.

PoolieAbroad

Panasonic Econavis are fun!
When switched to Eco mode they have three green lights that look for you...........then blow cool at wherever they find the heat source. It amused me for ages when we first had them installed.......Simple things amuse..............
If you leave the room for a while they go into super cheap mode and cut the power right down. Come back in and they fire up again.
Well recommended machines from our point of view. But apparently they are best when run over 5 hours ( so I was told by the installation chaps)

Gunnar45

Never thought about that feature.
But then we only use it at night when we anyway don't leave the room.

InVinoVeritas

I'm thinking lots of things but dare not mention any of them here

bakedbean

Someone told me you have to change the "tubing" in the wall too? So is it as straightforward as it seems? Also do you have to change ALL the aircon units? We have quite a lot....though only two get used seriously.

Davita

I have one like that in our living room in our apartment in Jakarta but it isn't an inverter type unfortunately..... but it is very cold. I think it's a Panasonic but I'm not there right now to check.
I find that light locator feature a little creepy...it's like someone is following around the room and, when many people are walking around, like a party, it gets confused....so I normally switch the feature OFF.
It is amusing but IMO more gadget than efficient.
Thanks for the info tho' as I wasn't aware it worked on a heat source nor that it worked in eco-mode...I was thinking must be infra-red or something.....so now I'm smarter and will read the manual when I get back to Jakarta.

Gunnar45

BB,
Of course you only need to change the ones which run most often and extended hours (say >5 hours per day)

Regarding tubing, for one of our units, the compressor unit and the indoor unit were 'wall to wall' so no problem to change the it, there was only a straight hole through the wall.
For the other one, the tubing went first through one wall into a bathroom with a lowered ciling and then above this ceiling through a wall to the outside where the compressor was located, so no problem there as well.
(For insulation purpose, it is anyway good to replace long tubing if the installation is old)

There is some brand which does not require different tubing size and then there is the possibility of fitting transition joints.
Best is to show your installation to the specialist and ask for advice.
In our case we have a total of six AC's and we replaced two. (The ones in our bedroom and in the guest room) In other rooms we manage with fans and open windows.

I have noticed that some people prefer to have all the compressors together on one not so visible outside place of their flat. But that could involve long tubing and some losses due to that.

InVinoVeritas

Just to add in a couple of English/American technical terms:-

The single unit through-the-wall (or back-to-back) type of aircon is called a split.

The one where there are several internal units but only one outside compressor is called a multi-split.

PoolieAbroad

Purely personal preference but we had quotes and 'advice' to put all the compressors in one hidden place on a roof slab.
They then quoted double the amount we eventually paid as I wanted back to back.
I like to be able to check the outlet pipes are clear and flowing.
There is no need to hack half the house down if something breaks, blocks and needs replacing.
Yes we have visible compressors on the walls but It has made servicing and cleaning very simple.
Not to mention a lower initial cost as many places include back to back fitting in the price quoted.
Again personal choices play an important part and we don't have to worry about hanging things on outside walls 10 floors up in the sky.

Gunnar45

PoolieAbroad,
I fully agree wth your above post.

Davita

@ post #13

As you say, if one has a choice then that's great.... but often building management in apartment blocks have regulations which mean the architect had the choice.
My apartment in Jakarta is like that...no compressor nor TV antenna is allowed to be seen from the exterior...that's why the compressors were hidden behind a wall and stacked one on top of each other (inefficient)....and extended piping was required. I had them moved to ceiling level (8ft) on the verandah more back to back, but separated, and still hidden from view.

When I bought our 2 level villa new in Bali the upper bedrooms had back to back A/Cs...problem was anyone over 5 ft could gash their heads on the compressor cases suspended on our verandahs.
I had them moved above to the roof level and shielded from the sun. The pipes were extended and entered the same holes thru' the wall as before...I didn't notice any depreciation of efficiency due to the extended pipes.

With regard to maintenace we have an A/C maintenance man every 3 months...he pressure-washes the units with a little pump, checks the oil and whatever used to be called freon. He was here today!

I've lived in (Malaya, S'pore, Hong Kong, Indonesia) most of my life but still feel that 'sometimes it just takes common sense'....there's no trick.....