37100

hmm. Is the teacher just out of uni? They use guillemets *sp* for university publications etc.

Lorna at Vicenza

Well she's around 40 so shouldn't be just out of Uni ....... but sometimes you never know how many years it's taken an Italian to get their "laurea".

Pecora Nera

My Oh is a full time teacher over here and the school / ministry have managed to cock-up her payroll.

She is waiting for her December, January, and this months salary. She phoned them again today and has been told she will receive 300 euros on the 12th March!!!

Her December pay will be paid with her March salary on the 23rd March. They are not sure when she will receive her Jan and Feb salary.

Lorna at Vicenza

That's just not on is it. How they think people are supposed to manage is anybody's guess.

I have a married couple of friends - both teachers. They budget all summer because they usually don't start getting paid again until November even though they are both back at work full time in September.

It's a stinking system. I bet your wife hasn't even had a decent explanation and apology.

MarkRD

That's really bad. No wonder they're not motivated half the time.

Pecora Nera

We are fortunate in that I am working and she has a close family. We have asked her dad to top up the coffers.

We also have to budget the same as your teacher friends although I do have a salary. Depending on her contract My Oh finishes work in June or July and receives her last wage the following month. She then starts in September and is hopefully paid October or November.

You are correct there is no explanation, my OH just shrugged and said "but this is Italy"

Pecora Nera

I am sure you know that a lot of teachers change school each year, due to the fact that they are still working their way up the "name" list. Each September they will go to the main school in the province and hope that there is a place in a school for them.

When they have acquired enough points through working they are then granted a permanent position. My OH is 36 and has been on the name list for 10 years and worked for 4 years. This year she is teaching at three different schools. Each school is an hour apart. Over the past 4 years she has taught in 11 different schools.

It is a dreadful system.

Lorna at Vicenza

Yeah I know - the list is called the "graduatoria". One of my friends had a big garden party last year in September to celebrate when she finally got herself a permanent position in a school. She's 45. The school is about 20 minutes away so she thinks herself lucky.

Pecora Nera

That's it. Although now your friend has a permanent position I understand she can now apply to move to a different school. My OH found out that there was a shortage of teachers in Piemonte so she moved her name from Ragusa to here. When she gets the full time position she may move it back to her home town. They then have to offer her one of the jobs that are currently filled by the one year contracts.

It is crazy.. In the UK you apply to the school, are interviewed by the school and offered a job.

Here a teacher turns up at the school and says HI I am your new teacher. My wife should be teaching English but she has taught full classes and sostanio she has to take what is left. On Sunday I met the English teacher from OH's school and she could not hold a conversation with me. It was like talking to a shy 7 year old who knew they could only say hello, this is a book and where is the toilet. We ending up talking in Italian with me mixing up formal/informal, gender plural etc.

Lorna at Vicenza

The whole system is crazy.
I think it can be detrimental to the kids as well. If you have a new teacher every year or six months ... how can they make informed decisions on your progress and skills? That's probably why they rely so heavily on the "verifiche" and "interrogazione" classroom tests. They use the results from these tests to score the report cards.

As for the interrogazione, I can't think of anything more humiliating for a kid or young teen to be hauled up to the teacher's desk and interrogated on a particular subject and given marks out of 10 for it. I know many kids who crack under that kind of scrutiny. Even the word itself is bloody medieval.

Chloe's primary school English teacher was great and her level of English was better than what she needed to teach for that level. Chloe's teacher at middle school is crap. She probably has the grammar rules down pat but cannot speak more than standard sentences and has the shittiest pronunciation.

HADENOUGHPIZZA

The idea of the '' Graduatoria '' was originally to prevent nepotism . It was felt that if it were left to the local authotities or indivual schools to appoint staff then they would pick their friends / realtives / whoever paid most with scant respect for academic performance . As it is chaos reigns becuase it is impossible to get rid of a teacher who has thier ' ruolo ' and the system is supposedly really corrupt anyway . Don't forget that Berlusconi allowed 100's of religion teachers to be given ' ruolo ' despite that fact that many had no formal qualifications and religion is the only optional subject anyway . These teachers now have a job for life. The biggest problem is that there is no effective check on teaching standards and good hard working teachers get no recognition while lazy / mad / underperforming teachers cannot be sacked .

Lorna at Vicenza

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Pecora Nera

It must be detrimental.
1) Why should a teacher work hard at a school when she knows she will be at a different school the following year, they know they won't be kept on at the school if they excel.
2) Why should a school invest time and energy in mentoring a teacher when they will leave at the end of the school year.

At the school my kids went to in the UK, the school talked of the school ethos and how important it was to employ highly motivated teachers who could work within the schools ethos, and how they helped the teachers to grow. Here no one cares.

There are of course dedicated teachers. Over the years I have met quiet a few of my OH colleagues and there are poor and good teachers, but the standard of the English teachers is generally very poor.

Pecora Nera

So true.

Pecora Nera

5 years ago my OH was diagnosed with multiple myeloma. Last year a colleague told her that each year as soon as she starts the contract she should sign off sick for the rest of the year. She said she has a recognised illness and she will be paid and will get her points towards her full time job.

My OH obviously hasn't, she goes to school everyday and makes up the hours she misses for hospital visits.

But it does show some of the mentality here.