TestaRossa

dina165 you have NO idea how much sympathy I have with you!! My son is 15, so takes his IGCSE's next year. He's at Winchester College, so the levels are pretty high. He's just had his summer exams and a few results are coming through - 41% Chemmy, 53% Physics, 75% biology. I know he didn't expect to do well in the first two so I was consoling. My OH was incandescent. Unfortunately I think I have taken the line your OH has, as in it's what he does next summer that matters and this is all about finding out his weaknesses. Then he posted on Fb this morning when he probably should've been revising! He joined a group called "even though I know I'm F****d for this afternoons exam I'm still messing about on Fb"....that was the straw for me, especially as he knows I'll see it. Now my hope is that he just finds it funny, not his state of mind, 'cos that is just taking the pee as far as I'm concerned!! My OH is even close to pulling him - as he pointed out we don't mind making the sacrifices we do to send him there if it looks like there is some molecule of appreciation, but he has just come to take it for granted going there. I would so love to send him to the Media near us, I think that would sort him out! Or would he be Liceo already??

The upshot is I've been on Amazon this afternoon and stuck a load of revision books into my wish list and then I'm going to go through them all and get them ordered for the summer break. At the moment there isn't going to be much of a holiday.... The revision guides on there are really good and not expensive. If you pick the IGCSE ones you'll also be getting exams set at a harder level than the GCSE ones....Just a thought!!

Patty

I'm seriously worried about the education system here. I think its on a fast decline and all the Gelmini reforms are just damaging what little bit of good is left. I don't have the possibility financially to send my youngest to a private school but I really do wish I did - I'd send him tomorrow!

Dina you have my total sympathy - my 19 yr old is leaving school this week with no diploma and no attestato - nothing. Partly its his fault but partly the school - so many hours of 'buco' and supplenti who dont do anything at ALL ! Its like trying to swim uphill. I know he's a bit idle but he's a bright clever lad - he just hasnt had any motivation or stimulation from the school. I know if you really want to study you will - but some kids need a bit of a push and they simply dont get it. I also feel really sorry for anyone here who is dyslexic too - the attitude to this is archaic.
But then we choose to live here dont we ????

dina1965

Testarossa ... that's exactly my problem. exams. an unbiased measure of his real competence (or lack of it) in the subjects he's supposed to be studying. Your son would probably be in third/fourth year Liceo here. Ricki, at almost 14, has just finished his first year (he was born at the beginning of September and did the "primina"). At Liceo the only real exams they take appear to be the equivalent of A'Levels in their fifth and last year. Before that they get "tests" in class and a pagella. Ricki's at Scientifico which means that according to Italian curricula he took physics this year (chem+biology are added next year). He got "8" in his final test (as did another three kids in the class). so am I supposed to believe this would be the equivalent of 80% in a UK exam ??! Obviously ridiculous. Especially if you compare that with his Italian teacher's comment "I don't give anyone higher than 7 in the first year ... " Does this mean that the physics teacher is a pushover or that she just has to show how good SHE is ? It's just an overspill from the Medie.
Patty, you're right. we did choose to live here. I'm the first to say we should take the good and learn to accept the bad. I also know that private schools in the South are usually used by kids who can't be bothered to study, need a diploma and have parents with cash. I doubt I can change anything outside my home ... but inside I still stress and keep trying.

TestaRossa

Well the books on Amazon and the stuff your friend is sending you will give you a good idea of the level in the UK.

What does interest me though is where it must go wrong here. I hear so many of my friends praise the elementare and how far ahead in Maths compared to the UK primary schools they are and how they learn to read and write in their first year.....in fact I hear nothing but praise for the elementare from most people - but then when I think about it in the UK it's at the senior schools - media and Liceo combined - that things fall apart too. There it's all down to which borough you live in and how open to grant maintained or grammar schools they are. If all you have is a secondary modern in a sink estate your f****d tbh....... They have Beacon schools now which are supposed to excel in certain areas of education, but not so many choose to get it in science or Maths, there's a lot of Beacon schools for Art and media...Nothing wrong with that, but I'm pretty sure it is the easier option.

Pecora Nera

I hope you don't mind me butting in. My wife is Italian and a teacher over here. She is as frustrated with the Italian education system as you are.

Part of the problem is the way they employ teachers. Instead of a teacher applying to a school and then being employed because of their merits as in the UK. There is a "name list" it includes all the teachers in the region. The longer a teacher has been on the name list the higher the number of points the teacher has. The teacher with the most points is first to choose their school / subject.

So you end up with my wife who has perfect english supporting a handicapped child in his lessons ( My wife has enjoyed doing this ) and their English teacher an old fart.... who can't manage more than a 3 min conversation with me. She always starts with, excuse my bad english....

You will find lots of teachers who are only on 1 year contracts. It can take 6 to 10 years before they get a full time contract.

Added...

We had a coffee last weekend with a young maths teacher. We explained how you apply for jobs in the UK. And that if you work hard and are bright, it is possible to run a dept in a school while you are still young. She couldn't believe it. All her dept heads are very old because they have to wait for the previous dept head to die or retire.

TestaRossa

But I thought the educational departments kept a "pool" of teachers in the UK? And when there were no vacancies, as if, you went into the pool, did some supply and maybe, eventually got a full time job, or am I wrong?? I seem to remember that's how it was in Manchester anyway.... Oh, and new teachers always get the roughest schools as all the teachers that are any good and have done their time get out as soon as, and if you refuse that school then you go back on supply, but not necessarily guaranteed any work from that point on. This is in the senior schools. It may have changed, but I doubt it..

Pecora Nera

I was a parent governor at my sons school for 3 years in Sheffield. We would advertise for new teachers before the summer holidays. We then carried out a selection process and interviewed the teachers. We chose the teachers on their ability. They were required to come into the school for three days before the start of the term for preparation.

In the Uk my wife applied for, was interviewed and given the job of Italian teacher in this way for a secondary school.

In Italy my wife is on the Italian names list. She cannot apply directly to a school. Each year in September she receives a letter asking her to report to the main school in the region where all the 1 year contracts are given out. When it is her turn she reads down the list of jobs left and selects the position she wants.

The first time she enters the school is to teach the children, she is not required to visit the head teacher or go to the school to prepare any lessons. Nor is she interviewed by anyone.

In the Uk we used teachers from "pools" for covering sickness. Not for a twelve month period. And the teachers who worked for the pools did so by choice as it suited their lifesyle.

In Italy A teacher first goes on the name list until she has accrued enough points to be granted a full time contract. My wife has been on the name list for seven years and worked in Italy for 3 1/2 years. She thinks it will be at least another 3 years before she is granted a full time position.


As an example. When my wife first flew here 3 1/2 years ago her first contract was with our local junior school as the English Teacher. although she would have liked to stay there, the following year the position was been taken by a woman with more points. That woman was then replaced this year by a man, with even more points. The children therefore receive no continuation in schooling.

One year the teacher will teach sit down please. and the next sitta downa pleese.

The other thing is obviously in the UK you can apply to as many schools in the UK as you wish, in any area. London and or Nottingham at the same time.

Here Eunice can only choose one region and a certain number of schools (I think 12 or 14) but I will ask her tonight. So if we want to move to Calabria for example . She has to notify the education dept to transfer her to the name list of that area. There is no hunting for jobs. Nor is their a culture of working hard to improve your prospects. There is no need as you do not apply for jobs with a cv and an interview. Providing you have the points YOU choose the school. The school doesn't have a choice of who works for them. Honest. Barking Mad

Pecora Nera

1) But the difference is the teacher gains experience in the pool and can apply for a full time position. He you can not apply for a full time position. You are told that you now have enough points. (Points = length of time on list even if never worked, plus points for years worked)

The big difference is you obtained your job by your experience and your quality / qualifications. In Italy other than needing qualification to be allowed to teach, the points system is more like the council house points system in the UK. The longer you are on the list the more opportunity to be employed for a year.

37100

Sorry dina, this is only a quick post, but have you ever thought of the United World Colleges?

dina1965

I've just googled UWC. There's one in Trieste. Not yet his age group. However I'm sure he'd enjoy the sailing and the skiing. Won't be very keen on the dressing up/singing/painting or the peace march !
On a serious note, 37100, thankyou, I think you're right - I need to look into alternatives for the last two years of Liceo if it carries on like this completely wasted year.

TestaRossa

He could go and board back in the UK for the last two years, boys start at Alex's school at 16 for A's....Just a thought..

dina1965

I like that thought... I would obviously have to go and visit him very often...just to make sure he's ok.

indiebird

Dina so sorry to read this. I feel very lucky that we won't be here for all that stuff tbh! Although, as TR says, gawd only knows what kinda secondary school I will find for my son when we get back!!!! In Hastings it's private (too pricey really for us) a good Boy's school or the shite estate schools! I guess we will see.... Che Sara Sara!! ()

Pete is totally right. I was a parent governor in the UK and the teachers in The Pool were always there for lifestyle reasons and mostly were good at coming in and getting on when they were needed and we always had quite a lot of what I saw as really good quality applications for any permanent jobs and this wasn't some leafy primary school either. The only criticism I have that the way things have changed in the UK recently is that the Heads who came in were seriously 'Career Heads' and were looking for the next step up the ladder which doesn't help individual schools. I was always happy though that many teachers who went in didn't want the department jobs. They wanted to be there in the class and teaching. Not so here unfortunately!!

Dina -on another note, I too had heard about those Gelmini plans and when I was in my local Cartalorea last week I actually asked the lady whether she'd heard anything about them not going back til the 30th! She looked shocked and said 'No. But wait there as I need to order all the books in and I don't want them here for 2weeks taking up half the shop so I'll phone the office.' She did it there and then and came back to me and said 'Nope, all the dates were set and agreed for next year before Gelmini said anything and the kids go back on tuesday 14th. This is true for the whole of piemonte.' Therefore you might want to phone the office (if you can trust yourself to be civil) and find out! I actually think that Gelmini needs to look at ways to make some savings somewhere but with these 'cast iron contracts' and a load of bloody dead wood she can't actually do anything constructive!!

dina1965

???? the Liceo's office ? They don't even answer during the school year !!!
School's here are supposed to start on 16th (it's a Thursday which means they'll actually start on 20th).

indiebird

God and I thought my kid's school was rubbish!