Capo Boi

In £ and $ terms, down by 30% since 2009. London, New York, kicking new highs. its always going to be about location (and exchange rates). If something seems cheap, there"s a reason.....In Italy, it's cheap because there are no domestic buyers.
A 30, 40, 50, percent price reduction then becomes irrelevant if there is no market. Its not about leaving one's brains at Stansted, it's about not losing one's brains in............regions starting with A, B, C,........
Thinking about it, the 'B' does not feature. Only once been to Potenza.

modicasa

Says who? Prima casa buyers in the cities are down - but second homes? (with no need for mortgages) It's true a lot of north Italians don't want to make visible investments and prefer pushing a gold ingot across the border into Switzerland, but the safest refuge in a crisis is land..... or so they said before it shook so much.
Location location location - true, but a price reduction sorts the wheat from the chaff.

Capo Boi

I may not feel like this but I agree with you Modicasa. Its not quite, but I was thinking about a letter divide. (Probably rubbish but...) In the UK outside London prices are down hard. Go onto most sites marketing the "cheaper" regions and you will commonly find price reductions of 50%. In Milan, Rome etc while transaction levels are down, prices are close to their highs. It just seems to me that where there are no Italian buyers, the price differential is widening. I was looking on another site. Person bought (I think) perfectly good appartment for €100k now on offer for €65k. Thats a brutal price reduction and resets market for other sellers. I don't really think this is a one off, more a reality check. And, I am under no illusion here. Four years ago, we could have easily sold our house for X. Though not a seller, I think now the price is X less 30%. (In a region starting with an S).

modicasa

Yep - where the market was principally for foreigners - buying old stables to restore - there is undoubtedly a big drop. Try explaining that to the sellers though! Asking prices have leveled off, but I think there is more negotiability, but the problem is - its a negotiation and the sellers still think their house is worth more than the market will allow, and when they want to buy they want huge price reductions. A distinct non grasp of economics here in a region beginning with S

homeandgardens

Modicasa,
hello. What is your take on the future prices of old stone houses in the region starting with S? Respecting the difficulties the people in Emilia have to go through right now, Do you think the earthquake in Italy will have some consequence in the market, as more risk is perceived by future buyers? Will people ask for more structural work done on their old houses? Here in Lombardy people start to question the solidity of buildings, especially industrial sheds.
Thank you.
H&G

modicasa

Thats a good question. However in Sicily the seismic laws are stricter than they were in Modena, as the risk is higher. THat said, who knows what will happen when the next big one comes. Fortunately there is little building in brick in Sicily, which is the worst material for earthquakes.

nicktonight

I didn't used to believe in renting but I do now I have been living in a region province and town starting with an S for several years. Every time my landlord comes round for his rent he asks me when I'm going to buy the flat but renting seems to be the best solution with all the risks -foreign residents being forced to pay off Italian debt - earthquakes - Italy leaving the Euro. 140 square meters with a beautiful view for 650 Euros at the moment and next year I will be looking for something even better

BeneMilano

foreign residents being forced to pay off Italian debt ....
how does that work?? ( i know only a wee bit about tax law in italy)

BeneMilano

I've lived in London and now live in Surrey - London is not kicking new highs (it just hasnt collapsed a lot)
in th South East - excluding inflation, house prices have lost a few % in last few years - not much but if high interest rates kick in, there will be a lot of houses on market
whar are prcies like in Como, Monza or Genova?
Im thinking of moving back to Italy

nicktonight

Hi Bene - Sorry about that comment about tax but I had just come back from my commercialista (accountant) who is preparing my 2011 income tax declaration: I had to give him the numbers of all my bank accounts outside Italy which are each taxed about €35 Euros/year at the moment + lots of information about any property I own outside Italy (taxed at 0.076 % of their cadastral value/year - local property tax) + all my savings outside Italy (also taxed at 0.1%/year at the moment). No-one knows exactly how these new taxes (IVIE) are calculated for each country and of course no-one can predict how they will increase in the future. I remind you that they were introduced in December 2011 and apply retrospectively for the whole year even to people who became resident like myself at the end of the year. I felt slightly despondent about this at the time but then had a great week in the Madonie mountains behind Cefalu that cheered me up!

These comments are really off topic - although these tax problems are one of the reasons I prefer to rent rather than buy.

BeneMilano

a few taxes in other countries that i know about..
Ireland - taxes in debit/credit cards
UK council tax (it is a valuation tax legally)
IVIE - to give some persepctive
in Surrey, council tax varies from 1k to 3k approx
France has similar if smaller taxes
these are I understand deductible from IVIE (double taxation agreements)
so you will probably pay little if any tax unless it is 400k+ (your commercialista should know that)

Italy offers a top-end health system and a quality of life that is almost unique - look at longevity

no-where is heaven -
Surrey has beautiful landscape but... (would only be edited my moderator)

homeandgardens

A house in Como, being city on the border with Switzerland, will not loose much. Monza might be slightly cheaper. Don't really see a drop in big northern cities like Genova. Depends a lot on location of course. Having said that there will be a lots of houses on sale as everyone is trying to make the best from their investments in property + the new taxes like IMU and carbon tax from 2013 will force many to lower the prices and sell their second homes. I read that the most of the bargains are to be made on the very high end expensive homes, which have been valued too much in the past. I might be wrong but in big northern cities I feel the price for an average apartment won't come down much. On the other hand rural buildings and small cities are experiencing a 20-30% drop from the pre-crisis prices. Even in a rich city like Bergamo there is quite a lot of margin when negotiating.
We also have to see if Italy will still be part of the euro-zone...
A nice stone building up North anyone?
Regards
H&G


PS: BTW I passed my building energy performance certifier test yesterday. Really pleased as I had enough of studying complicated mathematical equations and formulas.