TCBinItalia

I have two children ages 12 & 16 and we live in Canada. The children have been educated in English and do not speak Italian.

I may have an opportunity to relocate permanently to Italy. My wife and I have begun to do some research but are really struggling with the issue regarding education. We can't decide if it is best to send our children to a private international school (english speaking) or Italian schools (with the issue being that they will eventually have to pursue higher education (university) in Italy). If Italian, private or state? Our children are gifted students and the expectation is that they will eventually pursue higher education in Italy. Has anybody had to go through this experience and/or can offer suggestions or contacts to discuss with?

I should mention the relocation would be to Milan with Monza being a possible choice for housing (although we are flexible on exactly where if it would make sense to live somewhere else for schooling purposes).

Thank you.

primularossa

Dear TCBinItalia,
I am italian and I know quite well the education system.

My answer is: it depends :-)

Public education in Italy is good (it was better years ago, but it still resists), so don't be afraid to let them go to a public secondary school. Of course, there are better and worse schools, depending from the teachers, but I suppose that Milan is in a good situation.

Milan is also provided with lots of foreign schools, so you have the choice, but they are - of course - expensive. Italian public schools are not expensive because fortunally we still have a good welfare system, compared e.g. with the USA (of what remains of it after the "privatisation fever" that got all Europe in the last years), and the quality might even be excellent.

So you have to choose. The decision may depend in this: do you want that your children intergate into the Italian Society, or will they move soon for an University abroad? e.g. the Universities in Milan are very good, so don't be afraid to let them attend the University in Milan. Italian students are appreciated worldwide and can access to PhD positions abroad easily.

If they are willing in integrating into the Italian society, let them go to an Italian good public "liceo" without fears. They will have to learn Italian, but this will enrich them. Usually, in private italian schools you might find spoilt children from rich families, especially in Milan, not a good social environment, I think.

Having said this, be prepared to traffic, noise and bad weather, the Monza - Milan area is terrible. I have been living there for some months (I liven in Monza and worked in Porta Garibaldi area in Milan) - a good experience from the job side but not a good quality of life if you don't have enough money to spend.

good luck

TCBinItalia

Dear primularossa,

Thank you for your reply.

Yes, the intention would be for them to integrate into Italian society and eventually go to Italian University. My fear is that at their current ages (12 yrs and 16 yrs) it may set them back academically at least at first since they do not speak Italian.

From you response, it seems you favour Italian public schools.

Are there any particular schools you could recommend in the Milan area for children of similar age to mine?

Finally, I am surprised by your comments about Monza. All the research I have done so far suggests it is one of the nicer places to raise a family in the Milan area. Is there another spot in the Milan area that you would recommend?

Isakat

After reading your initial post, I imagined that your children are quite young.
At age 12 and 16 they will find it difficult in the first year/2 until they grasp the language.
Also, I do not know a lot about the schools in Canada, but here many are still teaching in the old parrot fashion style.
Have a read in the school thread, especially Lorna's posts.

If you can afford it, an international school will give you the possibility of your children going to UK/Canada universities which in my opinion are better recognized. This is the reason why our children do not go to an Italian school.

TCBinItalia

Given the age of my children, do you believe it would be a good idea that I send them to an International school for say the 1st year (and therefore be instructed in english) and then place them in an Italian school after 1 or 2 years, therefore giving them an opportunity to integrate into the society and of course learn the language? This is what my wife and I are struggling with. If our children were much younger, I think the decision would be much easier, i.e. we would definitely place them in Italian school immediately.

37100

I think that your 16yr old would be better off in an International school as she/he would find an Italian school very, very difficult. She/he would only have 2yrs to prepare for high school exams and very likely be held back a year or two to get a better grasp of Italian. The younger child would be in middle school and again, probably held back a year. It would be difficult, but not impossible. Personally, I'd put them both in an International school. The younger child could move on to an Italian high school.

Italian Uni's differ a lot. Some very good, some not so. However, a university course here lasts 5yrs min. A long time. Depending on what they wish to study, a UK uni might be a better choice.

primularossa

[QUOTE=TCBinItalia;11264658]Given the age of my children, do you believe it would be a good idea that I send them to an International school for say the 1st year (and therefore be instructed in english) and then place them in an Italian school after 1 or 2 years,


Dear TCB, It is true that it would be difficult for them to go straight to an Italian school. It is a hard decision to take if you are not in Italy yet.
Did you ask them what they want to do? at least the 16 years old one should be able to decide.

Anyway, consider that if they go to an international school and they will speak English at home, they will not learn Italian quickly, if the international school has not an Italian programme for foreigners. Once again, it depends on where the 16 years old one should go at the university. the 12 years old one has more time to integrate.

I would restrict the choice between Italian Public schools and international schools, according to the upper mentioned parameters. There are good private (and also not so good ) schools, but may be they are not worthy, it depends from the specific schools.

About Monza: yes Monza is a nice town itself, if you work and live in Monza and your children go to school in Monza it should be ok, but choose a house far from traffic. It is the Milan area itself that is a bit difficult. Milan is a town full of opportunities for job, studying, other activities, and it is by far less chaotic then Rome, but it is a big city with all the cons of a big city, it is city that offers a lot to young people and to people that can afford to stay in the centre, go out in the evening, go to theatre, concerts, and so on. Full of interesting cultural activities. But if you cannot afford them and you have to live in the suburbs, take the car every day for going to work, it's a hard life.

I don't know specific secondary schools in the Monza area, I have a friend who is a teacher in Milan, maybe I can ask her if you give me more detailed information, even in a private message, for not bothering the others.

ciao. Primula

37100

A few of you seem to be stuggling with quotes. To correctly quote and for easier reading, only remove the parts of the post that aren't relevent to your post, leave all the brackets. That is, all the heading brackets and the ending brackets. Clear?

Isakat

Most Int. schools have a good ratio of children who are foreign( English speaking mostly) and Italian children, so a lot of the conversation between the children is done in Italian during the breaks between lessons.
Italian is being taught in 3 groups-beginner/intermediate/advanced as a second language.
While your children will start at the bottom, they will progress towards the next groups and this is done gently, without stress.
In an Italian public school they will be thrown in the pool and they will swim or sink, which will affect their ability to learn the subjects.

DD is fluent in Italian and writes well. She speaks in Italian at school with her best friend. On the other hand DS although in the intermediate group, is not too enthusiastic about learning and speaking in Italian, but this is because he is not too enthusiastic about other subjects either, I think it a boy thing....

Although, he has no problems in speaking in Italian when he goes to the tabacheria to buy his Mondiale Fifa stickers

PS. You could always try and put your children in an Int. school to start with for couple of years and then decide if you will move them to an Italian public school, although by then I think your kids will not want to move as they will get used to the high quality of education and will have formed friendships.

37100

Thought this might help.

http://www.understandingitaly.com/pr...education.html

TCBinItalia

[QUOTE=primularossa;11265005] Thank you for your input. I would definitely be interested in the opinion of your teacher friend in Milan. Please do send me a response either in this thread or by private message. Thank you.

Lorna at Vicenza

Welcome to the forum TCB.
A couple of things about Italian schools have not been mentioned.
In Italy you don't just progress on to the local, nearest or best high school in town and do more or less the same curriculum as all the schools. You have to choose the type of school depending on your future choices and academics.
High schools are split into types of school and you make your choice at the end of 3 years of middle school at age 13 or 14. High schools can be the linguistic one, the artistic one, the scientific one, the classical one and others called ITIS or IPSIA etc. Once that choice is made, you are there for the next 5 years. All students in all schools do the basics like Italian, maths, science, history etc and then each school kind of specialises in its group so lingusistics do more languages for example, scientific do more science and maths.

Teachers can and will flunk kids and keep them down a year. It's not uncommon to have a couple of kids in your classroom that are a year older than you biologically. All subjects get graded out of 10 and a mark of 6 is considered to be "just enough". Anything lower than a 6 is an "insufficient" and 3 or more "insufficients" mean you can or will get flunked that year. Students are generally given warnings and time to bring their grades up, but flunking and keeping down does exist. It doesn't mattter if you are a bloody genius at maths and chemistry. Get below a 6 in geography, history and French and you risk getting flunked even if you are the next Bill Gates or Stephen Hawking. I personally don't like this as I know that all kids are not good in everything and I don't like the pressure it puts on them. I have never heard a teacher say something like, "he's a genius in science so we'll turn a blind eye to his crappy geography." It's a very different system and one that everyone here knows I am not a great fan of.

Sylsmum

I am a teacher in an International School and have a son age 13 in an ordinary state school in a village in Lombardy. My son is doing ok, but only because he came here age 9. I am undecided whether he will go back to the UK for school at 14+ as the system here is very difficult and the facilities are not good.
Personally I think at the age your children are, they would be better in an International School that follows the IB system, which is transferable worldwide. Most of the kids in these schools are Italian anyway, and most of these schools would offer extra support for students whose first language is not Italian. At their age, there is little support for foreign students in Italian state schools, and they could easily become discouraged or demotivated.
If they like sport, it would be good to enrol them in some local activities wherever you end up living. In this way, they would also get to mix with local kids. The local sports clubs in Italy, whether for football, volleyball, basketball, swimming, fencing etc tend to be excellent.