Re: Census 2011
 

You live alone and don't work so you could probably do yours in just 10 minutes or less. It wouldn't be worth trying to log off and then get back in.

Re: Census 2011
 

Only good experience from my point of view.

Like many, I had the forms waiting on a shelf until I could pluck up the enthusiasm to deal with them. Yesterday evening the phone rang - a girl from the comune (presumably armed with a list of people who hadn't yet done it) who wanted to know if we would like some help with completing the forms. I replied 'why not' - she came straight round, just asked the appropriate questions, completed the form for us, gave a receipt and took it away. Job done in 15 minutes.

Ah, the benefits of living in a small village.

Re: Census 2011
 

I have never worked so hard in my life, I never stop, I am actually famous in my village for always working, I will probably do the census when the weather is bad people are still surfing down here , Christmas day possibly like my tax returns

Re: Census 2011
 

Bricwood - it has a TIME LIMIT.

It must be filled in either online or the paper version handed in to your comune by NOVEMBER 20TH.

After that date, you're likely to find a comune based census help worker turning up on your doorstep one day because you can't get out of it.

Re: Census 2011
 

I must be really stupid :blink: There are 2 bar codes at the top of my questionnaire and another number, I have tried all three but non of them seem to work. The passwords seems straightforward. Any suggestions, apart from filling it in by hand. Thanks

Re: Census 2011
 

The number to use is the CdF of the person the form is addressed to.:)

Re: Census 2011
 

I am such a donkey :( Thank you !

Re: Census 2011
 

cdf is that the number on my identity card? I tried every number and combination so far cant log on to fill it in, if the worst comes to the worst I will get a local to help

Re: Census 2011
 

Your Codice Fiscale should be on your Sanitaria card, mine isn't on my identity card. Its the number you need to open a bank account etc so you should have one. It will be a combination of your surname/date of birth etc. Hope that helps

Re: Census 2011
 

I have tried coda fiscale about ten times still no joy, someone I know is going to say they were out of the country on that day!

Re: Census 2011
 

I just finished it, secret is no gaps in coda fiscale, did mine with chrome browser in translates on the fly, its a doddle really is, but why do they need to know all this?, took about ten minutes for me not much info to give

Re: Census 2011
 

also you can save the form as a PDF as proof you did it

Re: Census 2011
 

There aren't any gaps in your CdF. Why should you add them?:confused:

Re: Census 2011
 

I never got a card only a print out, its got gaps, my one is 3 letters gap 3 letters gap , anyway several gaps , I did not have an address when I set up my coda fiscale so my card could be anywhere , I have got away with a printout so far, gaps and all, if you dont believe me I can email you a copy

Re: Census 2011
 

Hey, I wasn't being sarky. It just seemed odd that you'd put them in. You've never had to use it either or you would have known not to do that.:) You can get a replacement plastic card on-line. Then you can use it in the fag/scratch card dispenser.:D

Re: Census 2011
 

I have only ever had to show it to people in places like phone shops, in fact I went somewhere once and did not have it and they generated one somehow from my name and age or something, I have hardly ever needed it and have never typed it in anywhere, I can still remember many years ago a man in London designing software that you could type a post code in with gaps or not, should have it here one day, It seemed logical to try with the gaps first , but its like a credit card , I dont really need a plastic one this is ok for me, just a sheet of paper but I made copies of course ,I am keeping my head down re taxes as I always have, dont believe in taxes

Re: Census 2011
 

I just had a visit regards my census, good job I kept a copy in pdf, the same woman who checked if I lived here for my ID card, she took the number and then asked my name, I thought something was afoot last week with officials snooping about , I wonder what happens to people who just chucked it? , this is chaos surely they should know I did it on-line?

Re: Census 2011
 

Did the census on paper and got a receipt at the post office. The letter that came with it said you could find instructions in English on-line or at the commune help point. This didn't seem to be true. I couldn't find them on-line and the person at the help point looked at me gone out! Anyhow, it turned out not to be too bad.

Re: Census 2011
 

I am still learning about Italy last week a mob of officials came down my road, the man from the pro loco was showing them where roads are, he said can you make us all a coffee I said ok, they all came in had a look about and did not want coffee, my neighbour said later never let anyone in they are checking to see how many live there, well you live and learn, must be more paranoid

Re: Census 2011
 

I have had to leave my house in Italy because of stalkers who continue to harass and terrorize me as well as destroy my property - all with the support of the local authorities. However, a friend was able to go there last weekend to check the latest damage and found a nasty letter in the mail about a census. Of course I have not done it because I have been gone for months. However, they threaten to fine me some 2000 euros. I discovered that I can still do it online, but of course there is no password on my form and the ista do not respond to my email. Does any one have any smart clues about how to get a password - or is there a universal password? Thanks for your time.

Re: Census 2011
 

One of my neighbours was away and they told me he had till the end of January and that's it, another neighbour was away and I sent an sms to the number on the the note that came and we have heard no more, if you were out of the country in October you dont need to do it I was told, wish I had a stalker not seen anyone in days!

Re: Census 2011
 

How come there is a letter about not having done the census - but no actual census form?
What does happen to all your post?
And what do you mean by gone? To a different address/town or country?

Re: Census 2011
 

The 'nasty' letter is probably the same one I got from the comune in our letterbox on 31st of Jan. reminding us that we have still not submitted the census form and the last date was end of November. They said if we did not give it to them ASAP, they are legally bound to send the data people all names of people who had not sent theirs in and fines between 200 and 2000 euros can be incurred.
I brought ours the day after and got a receipt from the comune. I think different comuni have different date as for Rome itself it is end of February, someone told me.

Re: Census 2011
 

I am living in another country - I had to get away asap...it has become impossible to live there any more. But am still stuck with the house. There is almost no mail - most things I do on line. We have been going there about once every two or three months. Also, I really do not give a flying-you-know-what about their local issues after how they have treated me. A form was stuck in the mail box but it has no password. apparently that's it. I left in fact one year ago in desperation and despite all risks to the house. And believe me, you do not want a couple of stalkers trying to frighten you 24 hours a day. However, if you like I can give them your address? May be they'd like a change. Also, I really don;t want any residency there any more but need it for my bank account. I suppose the one thing they will be efficient about is informing my bank if I give up my residency status.

Re: Census 2011
 

Residency - yes - that's what I was wanting to know because if you had informed the town hall of your departure, they wouldn't have sent the census form to you.
The password is actually printed on the front page of the form itself (if I remember correctly) so get your friends to check it properly for you. Do you know if they still have it? The census form was actually more like a book in the sense that it had a lot more than just a page or two.
I'm sorry for all the troubles you had.
You could perhaps have given up residency and changed your bank account to a non-residents one.

Re: Census 2011
 

nonnon I think you should tell us where in Italy you are to warn others, where I am the people are much nicer and kinder than English people as far as I can tell, its true things like ENEL are a bad but in my three years everything seems to be improving, electric only off once this winter, broadband flying, census not too terrible , I forgot to save my form at the end and a woman came to my house to tell me and was very friendly , are you sure its Italy?

Re: Census 2011
 

Well. I left as a temporary measure which is why I did not "tell the commune' - however the local police know. Are you sure you are in Italy? This is hell - I've been gone a year but still every month I have to get harassed by the police from afar. Yesterday it was a long email because of a small pile of rubble lying on a sheet of plastic in our yard. We wanted to restore our historical villa and have had to abandon things half way. The rubble (from renovations) was initially going to be removed by a local friend (who had a vehicle for it), however the charming stalkers intervened and threatened him if he were to help us. So, since then he stopped being a friend and only ever waves from the distance as he drives past. I can't believe any one still has a decent life in that country. For me it is like a police state. Not one month passes without a visit from the police - either the grass is too high, or I am not allowed to mow the lawn (at 3 in the afternoon in an agricultural area), or we are not allowed to park our cars in our own yard, or the garden plants do not look geometrical enough and need to be cut to shape etc etc. For me its over. I want to get out of there as soon as I can. (However that is not so easy).

Re: Census 2011
 

I am sorry about the problems you are having. To me it seems that a person/persons( your stalkers) bear grudge against you and every time they see something they do not like or think they can get you on, they go to the nearest police station and do an esposto against you.Have you thought of hiring a lawyer and doing a contra denuncia against them for calunia, molestie, etc as I know you can do this.
One of my friends had an esposto against them by one of the neighbours complaining because they do compost in their garden, apparently it was dangerous for the health!They also said the garden was not kept neat, which is a complete lie, but in any case it is none of their business who does what in their garden, what length the grass is cut, if it does not endanger anyone.Unless you have a pile of asbestos lying in your garden, they can stuff it. Needless to say our friend did not bother to reply to this as he knows his rights and if they persist complaining, he is suing them.
You need a lawyer to sort them out. I know it can take years, but this is your only defence. And if you do complain about them, do not do it in the same police station as they are bound to be connected, especially if you live in a small rural area, go to Polizia dello Stato.

Re: Census 2011
 

I'm not sure I even know a word in Italian for stalker.
In all my years here, I've never heard of anybody being stalked.

Re: Census 2011
 

persecutore ? The press would probably go for ' stalker ' anyway like they do ' mobbing '. Perhaps the Carabinieri would be a better choice if he feels the local police are involved too ?

Re: Census 2011
 

Thanks for your advice. What do you mean by "bound to be connected"?
There is a restraining order that has been put in place, at least against the man (it is a couple who are after me), which was made with help of the local police. It took "effect" one year ago - but is pretty much worthless. They have since destroyed part of my property and continue to escalate matters. I have had to get a lawyer because they have made about ten denuncie against us (my boyfriend is sometimes there) and believe it or not the stalker has started a court case against me based on lies - for which there is no evidence, because it never happened, yet I have to go to court and pay a lawyer already 1000 euros! It is like a murderer suing his victim. How can it be that a "legal system" allows this? He is stalking me - there is a long list of events, evidence and witnesses - yet nothing happens. He continues to send the police around to harass me. It is impossible to understand yet the key seems to be the following: he and his strega wife are trying to get 30,000 euros from me, saying that I hurt their honour! For something that has never happened - in fact it has been the opposite. I can never go into my garden without them hurling insults at me. Sorry to tell you such an awful story. An Italian friend of mine (no longer living in Italy) has told me that Italians do this to foreigners and that it is all about money. It seems they are trying to drive me nuts, out of my house and into financial ruin - I assume also, so that they can get my house. The lawyer says there is nothing you can do against crazy people like that but sell up. He says they never stop. They do have a reputation in the area for being nasty, never paying bills and the like - yet all the local authorities support them. Has any one else had any experience like this? Do you know for sure that you can do what you want in your garden? I am constantly under surveillance by the stalkers, who have 8 video cameras most of which are directed onto my house and even into the upstairs rooms. They block all my attempts to build a wall or even a fence. They have moved the existing fragile fence so as to steal a strip of my property....yet nothing seems to work. No one stops them. I'm afraid it is a hopeless situation. Fighting with a lawyer costs not just lots of money but also valuable time and life energy - which I do not have to spare. I would a t least like to minimize the damage it is creating on our lives.

Re: Census 2011
 

The other point is, what is considered "dangerous" all depends on how hysterical the person is who is making the denunica.
They say grass higher than 4 cm is dangerous because it attracts snakes, trees are dangerous because they can fall, I am dangerous because I live. You see, in Italy, my Italian lawyer friend who no longer lives there tells me, you can sue any one for any thing. Theoretically, you can sue someone because he or she is wearing a white shirt she tells me. Now that is what I consider dangerous. It is no wonder that she left the country - her own mother was suing her about some such nonsense!

Re: Census 2011
 

I don't know whereabouts you are in Italy but it sounds terrible. Nothing interesting like that happens on our street. There are just condomiums with friendly enough neighbours. Our condomium consists of 10 flats and we are all on first name informal terms. Plus through our direct neighbours we are also on friendly terms with the nearby neighbours. It appears they're all inbreds, married to cousins and in some cases the mother and the sister is the same person but I digress. So I'm guessing you are in the SOUTH? Which is like the wild wild west?

Re: Census 2011
 

I'm sympathetic to your situation because our friends also have the neighbours from hell. One example; the neighbours built an illegal 2nd floor to their home and hurl abuse from it at our friends especially when she is on her own. However, my mother in the UK also has them.

One thing we learn't the hard way is, always get a lawyer to do a denuncia. And it is normal to receive a 'contro denuncia'. And why shouldn't your neighbours file one to defend themselves? Filing first doesn't mean you are right. It is up to the judge or mediator to decide that. Think about it; what if they had filed first?

If the vigile do their job properly, they should always come out when they receive a complaint. Did you show them the restraining order? And no, you can't mow the lawn for example at 3p.m on a Sunday (I'm not referring to you) if the by-laws bans it even if it is an agricultural area. As for the length of grass, who knows the reason -and there can be reasons. Did you ask?

And my last question brings me to another thing. Do you speak Italian. We've said time and time again, no Italian = trouble. You say that you are/were renovating an historical building. They are notoriously difficult and involve a lot of paper work .the same as in the UK- which is why an architect is a must IMO.

And lastly:D the census. Why do you think that you are exempt! Fill it on line. If I remember rightly the password is your CF.

My post might seem a little hard, but again, I'm am actually very sympathetic to your situation.

Re: Census 2011
 

No, my census form has no password on it and the reply to my email from the istat was that they would not give me one. I assume in our area they consider everyone too stupid to be able to do it on line. However, I have since called someone named on the nasty letter who tells me that there is nothing to worry about, it has been taken care of - they said that I am an Italian. Which I am not - didn't seem to make any difference to him. I will however write a letter to the commune just in case he, like so many others, is lying.
Yes, we speak Italian. All your other points - have already been there and done that. And all the abuse always happens when I am alone - like your friend - not when my boy friend is there. Re the denuncia - it proceeds as follows: the carabiniar call one or both of us in to waste two hours at their station, infomring us that a denuncia has been made against us - however, we are not allowed to know about what and even if you decide to make a counter denuncia you are not allowed. Reason being: they do not invite us in until it is already too late to make a counter denuncia. One has to do it within three months. But it makes almost no difference, as they continue to only support the stalkers, my denunicas are usually thrown out and never brought to court. I know the vigili always come around when they call - the stalker neighbours, but never when I call eg.. after midnight or so. Getting a lawyer to write the denuncia costs 500 euros! Do you pay that every time? I believe it must be the only way. But I have no time to waste on any of this. I know you can get neighbours like that any where but Italy's legal system and corrupt authorities is the main and biggest problem. In a zona agricola you can legally make noise 24 hours a day as long as it is related to something agricultural - that is the law in this area. When the police came about the lawn mower they were unable to say what the hours are, say, in a residential area one may not make noise - but pleaded that the stalker had called so on that account please do not do it! What ever happened to the nice, easy going, flexible, humorous Italian? There are none for miles here.

Re: Census 2011
 

Are you going to put the property up for sale?

Re: Census 2011
 

Why don't you rent it out cheap to big noisy Albanians? See how your stalker neighbours like them instead.

Re: Census 2011
 

Yes, or chinese or similar...It is impossible to understand otherwise what motivates them. apart from the fact that they are truly psychopaths and think they can get money. I will never pay a stalker for terrorizing me and destroying my property. But I do not trust Italian courts.

I make no noise, am inside working all day quietly in my studio when I am there and that is it. Our renovations are not major and do not require laborous paper work. The house is not under national trust. They do not recognize its historical value, it is modernism. I have the hope to make the house available for low cost to musicians, artists, scholars or writers in exchange for keeping up the garden and covering costs. There is loads of space and one can drive to a completely natural beach - with a national park as background in just ten minutes. Too risky renting to Albanians or any one else unless you are friends with them of course. Also, they'd have the police there constantly so it would still come back on me. I'd personally like to sell it to some decent terrorists who could let them know how the real world is.

Re: Census 2011
 

No your census form doesn't have a password on it. It's your CF if I remember rightly. You need to insert that in the password box. Someone please confirm/correct me.

There is a fine line between what is consider agricultural and not. Mowing you lawn it could be argued (by your neighbours, I mean), isn't agricultural. You could have chosen to ignore the vigiles request. For the record, I would have stopped as well.:)

Our vigile don't come out at night -even if they say they will:(- we have to call the CC. As for the denuncia or I suspect, querela, you have 3 mnths from the time you become aware of being sued. So if you didn't receive the notice and only found out at the CC station, you had 3mnths from then. €500 IS a lot, but you would have known this if you had consulted a lawyer first. We fell into the same trap and will NEVER face the Italian legal system again without consulting a lawyer. And a fair chunk of that first fee are actually taxes for filing the querela. If I remember rightly, it was €70 a go after, though our's was a totally different problem.

I can only repeat that I am sympathetic to your situation, very, but it happens everywhere as my elderly mum found out when, for among other things, a neighbour called the police because my mum refused to let him put his stuff in my mum's top floor flat loft!!! He argued that the roof was communal.:ohmy: And her first lawyer did an appalling job, charging here €200 for just advice.:( What region is your house in?

Re: Census 2011
 

Regarding your neighbour pointing cameras at your property, I found this:

● Quando possono essere installati sistemi di videosorveglianza?

Per i soggetti pubblici, quando siano necessari allo svolgimento di funzioni istituzionali; per i privati, quando siano necessari per adempiere ad obblighi di legge o per tutelare persone e beni da aggressioni, furti, rapine, atti di vandalismo. In ogni caso, prima di installare un sistema di videosorveglianza, occorre valutare se esso sia realmente necessario agli scopi perseguiti e non violi i diritti di altri, o se non siano, invece, sufficienti altre misure: ad esempio, i sistemi d’allarme o l’impiego di personale di vigilanza.

● …e negli spazi antistanti le porte delle abitazioni private?
È consentita l’installazione di telecamere da parte di singoli condomini, purché queste non invadano la sfera privata degli altri condomini. Non è consentita, quindi, la ripresa di aree comuni o antistanti altre abitazioni. http://www.garanteprivacy.it/

So. I think you have a good case to forse him to either remove them or point them out of your property. Last solution, pay someone with an air rifle.