scrubbedexpat077

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usucaption

jiminalpago

Based on what has happened around here, also an area of post-WW2 depopulation, generations of deaths without formal testament has led to a situation where houses have multiple claimants of ownership. When the house is beyond even the most inventive Estate Agent's prose, Communes have persuaded heirs to let them take the ruin off their hands.A case in recent years involved 3 years of correspondence to Argentina, Belgium, Switzerland, etc.
Tis a different story, of course, if the house is habitabke or marketable.

GeorgeYoung

No, if your application for residenza is not accepted, then you do not have the legal right to reside in the comune for more than 90 days. This was the case pre-Brexit too. There are certain tests you have to meet (employment, family reunion, self-sufficiency).
Now that British citizens are extracomunitari, it is slightly less of an issue because if you do not have a permesso di soggiorno, you won't even be able to make the application. And to get the permesso di soggiorno, you need a visa and that's a much higher bar in terms of the requirements you have to satisfy.

C.2s

You sure? It would be interesting to see what happened if an EU citizen was refused the right to reside somewhere, and they decided to take that to the EU court of human rights...I think the EU court would be superior to any local comune rules but I doubt the case would ever get that far.
My comune insisted on employment evidence and private health care (which I didn't have) and I politely mumbled things about EU rights and several hundred thousand Italians living in the UK and then they decided they didn't need the documents they were asking me for.

GeorgeYoung

Yes, I am sure. In theory, you could probably live there under the radar and get away with it but you wouldn't have the right to use any public services, such as healthcare.

Just because the UK chose not to apply these provisions, it doesn't mean other countries can't.

modicasa

In the EU context , the right of residence for EU citizens is covered by Council Directive 2004/38/EC (Free Movement Directive) which differentiates between the right of residence for up to three months (Art. 6) and the right of residence for more than three months (Art. 7).

ie: Article 6

Right of residence for up to three months

1. Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for a period of up to three months without any conditions or any formalities other than the requirement to hold a valid identity card or passport.

2. The provisions of paragraph 1 shall also apply to family members in possession of a valid passport who are not nationals of a Member State, accompanying or joining the Union citizen.

Article 7

Right of residence for more than three months

1. All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for a period of longer than three months if they:

(a)

are workers or self-employed persons in the host Member State; or

(b)

have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State; or

—

are enrolled at a private or public establishment, accredited or financed by the host Member State on the basis of its legislation or administrative practice, for the principal purpose of following a course of study, including vocational training; and

—

have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State and assure the relevant national authority, by means of a declaration or by such equivalent means as they may choose, that they have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence; or are family members accompanying or joining a Union citizen who satisfies the conditions referred to in points (a), (b) or (c).

jiminalpago

Can I go back, Modi, to the question I asked earlier: at the Commune level, are you declaring where you reside (your Permesso, et al having decided it at the macro level), or asking permission to reside in that place, abitabilitá aside?​​
​​​​​

modicasa

I think you apply for residency - ask to immigrate into that comune, and the right to reside is granted by the comune if you satisfy the requirements, so it is a request rather than a declaration. If you move within the comune it's a declaration as you already have the right to reside in the comune.

jiminalpago

Ta!

C.2s

Thanks for the comments above clarifying the right to move for eu citizens.

I should really have taken into account two things:
1. We are both self employed
2. We wrote a self declaration of our income
but on the other hand we never provided any evidence of either of these things.

​​​​​I don't think there was any consistent approach. each comune made up their own rules. Certainly what was considered sufficient funds varied greatly.

Anyway it's all a bit moot now isn't it :-)

modicasa

Very moot, unfortunately!

clint

on channel 56 there is a series called vado a vivere in Sicilia (it is on now, it started at 4.30pm) about an American actress who bought 1 of the 1€ houses

modicasa

Yes its on HGTV - buy a house for 1 euro, and spend 135000 doing it up!

clint

and that was only for the building work + all the other costs (tiles, accessories, furniture etc) she also bought the house next door for 40K and made the 2 into 1