C.2s

Ciao!

I wonder if this is the sort of question that someone might be able to help with ( maybe someone with a holiday home)?

We're considering keeping our house in Italy but declaring ourselves non resident, and thinking through the various implications. I have a specific question about vehicles: we currently have a car and a motorhome with Italian plates. According to Italian law would we be able to keep them registered in Italy either a) short term or b) long term? I know that it's not possible to buy a vehicle unless one is resident... but I don't know about keeping a vehicle if one was resident but then ceases to be resident.

To explain further. The reasons we want to move back to the UK are complex* and we're considering different ways to do it. I think that often the bureaucracy is based on the idea that a person is resident in one country one day, packs up all their stuff and arrives in the other country the next day... but it's not always like that. At the moment we're thinking of going to the anagrafe and saying we're not resident from say 31/12 , then telling HMRC that we're going to be resident from 1/1 in the UK, but as we don't have a place to live there yet we'll use a family member's address. We don't know where we want to live, so we want to spend most of 2024 travelling around, using our motorhome, spending some time in B&Bs or other accommodation, and coming out to our place in Italy as 'tourists'. And then maybe after a year or so we'll decide on a location in the UK. Because our priorities are not paying tax in Italy/registering with the NHS in 2024, we think that declaring ourselves non resident here is best (rather than waiting until we find a place in the UK) ...
but it might be extremely complicated in the short term if we have to immediately stop using both vehicles. And then in the long term we'd have that problem that many second home owners face about having a car here ...

​​​​​​* I know some people will not be able to understand why anyone would want to leave Italy, and obviously you're free to post whatever comment you want, but I don't really want to get into the whole 'UK or Italy debate' if that's possible because we've kinda made up our minds about that
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philat98

Have you looked into selling a vehicle in Italy as an extra CEE non resident? You will have to keep on top of all the admin with two vehicles registered in Italy. I would be tempted to sell at least one of them. It is always possible that Salvini brings in some new laws that complicate matters further. Good luck with your plan.

C.2s

No, haven't thought about selling it when non resident considering everything I have read only says you can't buy a car unless you are resident I wonder if that situation would arise very often? Are you suggesting it's more difficult? Anyway, does that imply that it is possible to keep a vehicle when you're non resident? That was really my question

daniel_t

Hi C.2s, I'm afraid I can't give you any helpful information about car registration. (If you've already read my posts about my encounter with that mad lady when I was trying to convert my UK driving licence.)

But what I can say is - I think your decision to de-register your residence on 31 December is a smart move. This will keep your dual residence for tax purposes to a minimum time period.

NHS GP registration - I think your British passport alone should be enough, but it is not a requirement. You can always give your relatives' address for contact purposes. It might be helpful if you already have your NHS number. https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/gps/...-a-gp-surgery/ ('You do not need proof of address or immigration status, ID or an NHS number.')

daniel_t

Oh and btw - all the very best with your move back to Blighty and civilisation!

Finknottle

Hang on - he can't be in two places at once!

daniel_t

Blighty is civilisation and civilisation is Blighty.

Italy? Self-styled ancient civilisation or borderline first-world country. That's already a polite way of putting it.

philat98

When I registered at the comune they didnt use the date I gave them. If you deregister on 31 December you might find you are still officially resident after the Epiphany.

C.2s

Thanks guys for your various comments.

I'm amused by the comments about "civilisation"... :-) ...um... what can I say? When my first child was born I loved him with ALL my heart, but when the second and third were born (and when my stepkids came on the scene) it turned out that it's possible to find equal room to love them also...so why not love two (or more) countries? And a bit like kids there may be things those countries do that you don't like, but you still love them. The plan I have makes me feel more positive about my relationship with Italy, but everyone is entitled to do things their way.

Yes, I take the point about the date of deregistering... I've spoken to the anagrafe and they said they'll do it. We can do it in advance and attach a letter to the form stating the effective date, or send a PEC on the day itself.

NHS - Not a problem.There's no official definition of being "resident" established as a law (because parliament has never passed such a law). The vague definition has arisen through common law precedent. Effectively if you are a UK citizen then you only need to return to the UK with the intention of staying. You don't have to prove anything. And no you don't need an address (remember that homeless people, travellers, etc can also register)... but GPs tend to like one in order to be able to contact you for things like cancer screening check ups. So we're not deregistering from Italy on the 1/1 because of NHS rules, but because of the ASL rules (you have to reregister every calendar year).

As for the vehicles. I have found that it's possible to register a vehicle in Italy if you are an EU resident (but not Italian resident) with a second home in Italy and you have a person who is resident here who you nominate as a sort of contact. So I think I'll ask if the ACI and PRA (the vehicle registration office) about doing that, and argue that I was an EU resident and have those rights protected under the Withdrawal Agreement ... obviously they'll probably have no idea what I am talking about! Still it's a place to start ;-)

Geordieborn

C.2s Think your intention to check with ACI is the best way forward. I really just wanted to wish you all the best from someone who knows how complex these decisions can be. Getting on for 5 years (wow) and we still don't miss Italy like we thought we would, but still love the place. But the big surprise for us was the reward of now appreciating both places in a way we would never have done had we not went to Italy! Enjoy the adventures....

C.2s

​​​​​​Thank you for such a supportive comment.

Is there anything you forgot to do/wish you'd done differently when leaving?

modicasa

This is one of those questions where its all about interpretation of the law, I reckon. You bought a car as a resident so that's fine. Having a car as a non resident - I have never seen anything that forbids it. Its the actual purchase that is the thorny problem. But... the insuring of a vehicle as a non resident will bring the question - where is your residence and at that point things may get complicated. Have you tried asking your insurance company if there would be problems? If you're keeping your house here, it would just be your domicile instead of your residence, so you might be fine.

Geordieborn

No nothing really C.2s . Perhaps a few more photo's of the little things, we took an awful lot, but daft things like the sansa burner would have been nice....

C.2s

Interesting...

And, I'll also check the insurance