Inglorious Empire

Old Apr 28th 2020, 2:42 pm
  #91  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by morpeth
not sure it means much, all started on my assumption bipat was british maybe if she now moves to mexico and gets citizenship after 5 years she will then feel she is Mexican as well.

I have a friend who has lived in japan who feels he is japanese doubt many Japanese think so but too polite to say anything.
Morpeth-----I have been a member of an Indian family for 52 years. My three children, and their children, members of that family since birth. How can YOU possibly know what anyone else thinks of me???

(By your rationale I am a person who bears no relationship nationality- wise to my husband, children and grandchildren, let alone other relatives. I expect soon they will all club together and have me locked up in a maximum security care home for unknown people!!!)

PS I know what I think of you!!!!!


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Old Apr 28th 2020, 2:59 pm
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by nonthaburi
People choose what sex they feel these days all the time, so why not nationality? 🤔️

I used to visit Spain on holiday , after an afternoon in the tapas bars I always felt very Spanish!
I suppose you choose your marriage partner and join families. Hopefully it generally lasts longer than an afternoon.

Many of these posts have become somewhat jocular, however we are in the UK, and it has become 'not funny'!
Our eldest bother and sister in law (60 yrs married) stuck by lockdown in our ancestral shared home, longing to go back to their Pune children, grandchildren.
Just sending WhatsApps photos of flowers in the gardens to each other and them continuing to organise ongoing work in our Indian back garden. Our dear 96 year old neighbour there------when will we see them again!


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Old Apr 28th 2020, 3:07 pm
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by Bipat
I suppose you choose your marriage partner and join families. Hopefully it generally lasts longer than an afternoon.

Many of these posts have become somewhat jocular, however we are in the UK, and it has become 'not funny'!
Our eldest bother and sister in law (60 yrs married) stuck by lockdown in our ancestral shared home, longing to go back to their Pune children, grandchildren.
Just sending WhatsApps photos of flowers in the gardens to each other and them continuing to organise ongoing work in our Indian back garden. Our dear 96 year old neighbour there------when will we see them again!
Indeed, currently stuck on an army base that I leave once a week to buy food. Not seen my wife and children since early January. Wouldn't have thought I'll be able to see them until July at the earliest.
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Old Apr 28th 2020, 3:37 pm
  #94  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by nonthaburi
Indeed, currently stuck on an army base that I leave once a week to buy food. Not seen my wife and children since early January. Wouldn't have thought I'll be able to see them until July at the earliest.
Really sorry about that---Our younger daughter apart from husband as he has serious auto immune disorder---so he is staying with his parents --she is a GP----so could bring infection home. Her children are in school as their parent a health worker, often they are the only ones there and lonely without their dad and friends.
However people have been so,so very kind and helpful (as they also have been during his 2 year illness). Just as they are in India a neighbour arranging all the negotiations and payments for our garden work (now started again now local town lock down lifted.)
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Old Apr 28th 2020, 7:24 pm
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by Bipat
Morpeth-----I have been a member of an Indian family for 52 years. My three children, and their children, members of that family since birth. How can YOU possibly know what anyone else thinks of me???

(By your rationale I am a person who bears no relationship nationality- wise to my husband, children and grandchildren, let alone other relatives. I expect soon they will all club together and have me locked up in a maximum security care home for unknown people!!!)

PS I know what I think of you!!!!!
really bipat we are just discussing things and your personal inference is uncalled for, especially when sometimes you don't seem to read what I actually write. I obviously don't know what those around you think, I just pointed out since you object being defined as a foreigner living in India, that the average Indian seeing you would not unreasonable consider you a foreigner, If you feel you are Indian then that is your feeling.

I have an aunt who married someone from another country and married 60 years, and while she has learn the customs and language of where she lives, she is still British and considers herself British.

you seem like a nice person, and I had no idea mentioning in response to your post that you were a foreigner there would create such an issue.

Last edited by morpeth; Apr 28th 2020 at 7:33 pm.
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Old Apr 28th 2020, 7:32 pm
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by nonthaburi
They're more British than you are Indian due to the fact that they were born and raised in the UK, in Rishi Sunak's case it was his grandparents who came to the UK from the Punjab via East Africa, and in Pratel's case her parents fled Uganda.

You only have to hear them speak to know how British they are. Your wording suggests that all indigenous British view people with different coloured skin as foreigners. This is so out of touch with reality, in my experience of the UK anyway.

Generally speaking, where you are born and bred defines you culturally.

My own children are British, but they've only spent a total of 6 weeks there in their lives. They have a British passport but in no way are they culturally British, and they themselves would admit that . English was never their first language either.

Your seem to want to be more Indian than a real Indian. And by that I mean someone born an bred there.
Good post expressing it better than I. Bipat has also told me there is no such thing as culture, and if there is there is no Indian culture because it is such a large country. You make a good point, one of my children has spent very little time in the UK, he has a British passport, has gone to school in other ango saxon countries so some similarity, but that is quite different than someone born and bred especially the first 20 years of their life only being the UK.



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Old Apr 28th 2020, 9:55 pm
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by morpeth
really bipat we are just discussing things and your personal inference is uncalled for, especially when sometimes you don't seem to read what I actually write. I obviously don't know what those around you think, I just pointed out since you object being defined as a foreigner living in India, that the average Indian seeing you would not unreasonable consider you a foreigner, If you feel you are Indian then that is your feeling.

I have an aunt who married someone from another country and married 60 years, and while she has learn the customs and language of where she lives, she is still British and considers herself British.

you seem like a nice person, and I had no idea mentioning in response to your post that you were a foreigner there would create such an issue.
Possibly Morpeth you wouldn't have realised that there is a great deal of intermarriage within the medical profession (Their working hours result in the only people they meet are each other!) One of the pair will often land in a different country and aquire a new family.
Being a member of a family in a non birth country does not mean that the person is a "foreigner"-----in the sense of 'different', 'stranger' etc. As you said to me ---look in a dictionary.
I have known many such couples then becoming a family world wide. As in any family members learn each others habits etc. Sometimes language.

(As this thread concerns India, I could point out that language differences happen there also. A dearest late sister in law* never did manage Konkani in the same perfect way as another niece did from a different state who married a nephew.
(*Still remember years ago when translating a Hindi film in a cinema for me-----she yelled "She's been wrapped"-----I had noticed!!!!)

Morpeth in the TIO part of the Forum Remainers such as you condemn the description of settled migrants, spouses from abroad in the UK as "Foreign"-----you are doing just that.

(As others have said most British people do not do this, my husbands patients would describe him when asked who they had seen; as "the one with glasses"----not "The Indian"!!)






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Old Apr 29th 2020, 9:18 am
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by Bipat
Possibly Morpeth you wouldn't have realised that there is a great deal of intermarriage within the medical profession (Their working hours result in the only people they meet are each other!) One of the pair will often land in a different country and aquire a new family.
Being a member of a family in a non birth country does not mean that the person is a "foreigner"-----in the sense of 'different', 'stranger' etc. As you said to me ---look in a dictionary.
I have known many such couples then becoming a family world wide. As in any family members learn each others habits etc. Sometimes language.

(As this thread concerns India, I could point out that language differences happen there also. A dearest late sister in law* never did manage Konkani in the same perfect way as another niece did from a different state who married a nephew.
(*Still remember years ago when translating a Hindi film in a cinema for me-----she yelled "She's been wrapped"-----I had noticed!!!!)

Morpeth in the TIO part of the Forum Remainers such as you condemn the description of settled migrants, spouses from abroad in the UK as "Foreign"-----you are doing just that.

(As others have said most British people do not do this, my husbands patients would describe him when asked who they had seen; as "the one with glasses"----not "The Indian"!!)
If you wish to believe you are Indian that is up to you.

The UK has had substantial immigration in past decades, with now second and third generation descendants of immigrants,born and bred in Britain- not exactly the situation in India. It certainly makes a difference someone brought up in one country than someone brought up in a different country. As the example I gave my aunt is and will always be British no matter how familiar she becomes with the culture of her husband's country.Of course there is a difference,

Maybe an Indian-English dictionary has a different definition than a British dictionary.

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Old Apr 29th 2020, 9:41 am
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by morpeth
If you wish to believe you are Indian that is up to you.

The UK has had substantial immigration in past decades, with now second and third generation descendants of immigrants,born and bred in Britain- not exactly the situation in India. It certainly makes a difference someone brought up in one country than someone brought up in a different country. As the example I gave my aunt is and will always be British no matter how familiar she becomes with the culture of her husband's country.Of course there is a difference,

Maybe an Indian-English dictionary has a different definition than a British dictionary.
What is an "Indian-English" dictionary??????? What language is "Indian"????

Quick look on-line various dictionaries.
Foreigner-----From another country. Outsider. Stranger. Interloper. Belongs to another country.
You gave one example of an aunt-----I could give you dozens of examples!!!

I 'belong' to two counties. I have no idea why that is a problem for you!!!!! Even have a little blue booklet to prove it when I pass through immigration.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/h_PVrExoVaA/maxresdefault.jpg

Last edited by Bipat; Apr 29th 2020 at 11:02 am. Reason: Addiition
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Old Apr 29th 2020, 9:43 am
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Back to topic.

Interesting article this AM.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/in-de...cid=spartandhp
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Old Apr 29th 2020, 11:31 am
  #101  
 
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

The Overseas Citizenship of India is an immigration status permitting a foreign citizen of Indian origin to live and work in the Republic of India indefinitely.

From Wiki.
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Old Apr 29th 2020, 11:52 am
  #102  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by nonthaburi
The Overseas Citizenship of India is an immigration status permitting a foreign citizen of Indian origin to live and work in the Republic of India indefinitely. From Wiki.
That defeats your 'born and bred' argument. Husband India born and bred, never left the country until the age of 31, is now OCI. Is he "foreign"??
It means a lot more than 'immigration status', full rights except voting and buying agricultural land. Always ongoing controversy regarding voting rights (should be introduced etc.) Dual nationality allowed etc.
Haven't looked up the Wiki definition, these definitions are not always accurate. I am not of Indian "origin" but am OCI.

Another anomaly--- those descended from people living under the Portuguese Empire (Goa etc.) who were registered at birth and offspring registered, keep their Portuguese nationality and are therefore dual nationals. Even if never lived in India. Until Brexit therefore had FOM into the UK!
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Old Apr 29th 2020, 12:01 pm
  #103  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by Bipat
What is an "Indian-English" dictionary??????? What language is "Indian"????

Quick look on-line various dictionaries.
Foreigner-----From another country. Outsider. Stranger. Interloper. Belongs to another country.
You gave one example of an aunt-----I could give you dozens of examples!!!

I 'belong' to two counties. I have no idea why that is a problem for you!!!!! Even have a little blue booklet to prove it when I pass through immigration.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/h_PVrExoVaA/maxresdefault.jpg
no problem bipat if you wish to believe you are indian.

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Old Apr 29th 2020, 12:12 pm
  #104  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by Bipat
Back to topic.

Interesting article this AM.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/in-de...cid=spartandhp
Thanks bipat interesting article. nice that indians could start their businesses and prosper under british rule with also the benefit of western science so i am not sure how the article shows anything disadvantageous to british rule but the opposite. indian traditional medicine i am sure has many benefits, i take turmeric and has been very helpful.
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Old Apr 29th 2020, 12:24 pm
  #105  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by morpeth
no problem bipat if you wish to believe you are indian.
I am a "citizen of India", I have never said that I was of Indian origin.
You DO seem to have a problem.
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