Chris

"dugongs" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > The world cup really bought it home to me as I hadn't seen England play for over 3
    > years (never shown here) and you forget what it is like to really care about the
    > outcome of a match.

We have this thing called cable :-) I'm not a big fan of Aussie football either.

    > The quality of the media (the ABC excluded) is very poor and coverage tends to be
    > very ozified with major stories like ozzie gets bitten by a shark, ozzies are the
    > best in the world at this, its official ozzies are meglomaniacs etc etc. It becomes
    > tiring after a while.

This is generally the same all over... watch SBS for "all international" news.
However, I do agree that the commercial channels with their major time slot news
broadcasts can get quite dry.

    > I also miss the humor and tolerance of London. Ozzie humor can be funny in small
    > doses but day to day it tends to be sarcy, taking digs and wind ups. The ozzies
    > seem to take everything so seriously and seem very pedantic on the most
    > insignificant details.

Err, I've kind of found that to be a British trait, but even moreso an American
trait. Though these generalisations can always be proven untrue with exceptions.

    > I have found a few laid back ozzies but most seem to be working too hard these days
    > to make a living and keeping a roof over their heads.

You're in finance... what do you expect?

    >There's also the real matcho man thing going on so you have to take the
piss out of everybody you like
    > and if you don't stay for a beer after work expect to be ostracized (or is that
    > Oztracized as they seem to specialize in it).

Well that sounds like the whimpiest excuse I've ever heard. If you let people boss
you around in this way, then that's your own fault. I don't know anyone who has to
conform to such unofficial rules at work. This really has nothing to do with
Australia and a lot to do with the company you work at.

    > It's a very conformist place and I found little acceptance for any differing
    > views. Its also very unfriendly and it amazes me how people that cannot stand each
    > other will force themselves to drink together after work as they cannot be seen to
    > not do so.

I think you had better change this from being a sweeping generalisation about
"Australian workplaces" to, "The one company I work at," because this kind of
behaviour could be present in nearly any country in the world.

    > No doubt loads of Aussies that frequent this site (don't know why they do
? although I've noticed
    > most seem to have a web service to promote or a migration agency business to drum
    > up business for !) will now say its all my fault but that is far from true.

I hate to be the first to let you know, but British Expats is a website which feeds
off Usenet. That is, this is an Australian newsgroup which you people from British
Expats are linked to.

    > I have been reasonably successful here and been promoted etc etc I work hard and am
    > happy to do it and I enjoy my work but unfortunately for me working here is just
    > made too difficult by the Aussies.

Statements like that earn you the title, and rightly so, of "whinging pommy bastard."
It has nothing to do with "the Aussies". It has to do with your workplace. How can
you liken the whole country to a minute sample of people who sound like yobbos?

Chris

Tatiana

The best school of NSW is James Ruse - state selective. Other selective schools (Sydney Boys, Sydney Girls etc.) are not far behind. And some non-selective state schools are making into top 20 – so supremacy of private schools here is just a myth. (Unfortunately selective schools are not a choice for Victorians – as I heard there are only 2 of them there).

Regarding all other point – 100% agree. Unfortunately I have no British passport to go to UK.

willywh3r3

Hi All,

Thanks for all honest feedbacks from all readers in this forum.

This forum is great! The information has been very useful.

Rgrds,
Wil

Terry R Brooking

    > 4). Aussie business is very mate orientated. Local knowledge is king and skills and
    > experiences come a distant second. My experience is bosses here tend to surround
    > themselves with doting sycophants and you were either in the circle or out but
    > more likely out particularly if you were a migrant or hadn't grown up / worked
    > with them for the last 15 / 20 years !

I've been in UK for much of the last 20 years and I would say this describes SE
England very well even after 20 years. Perhaps I need a new tie or to learn a special
handshake! I never noticed any such problem in Sydney, Melbourne or Perth or anywhere
else (other countries) I've lived for any length of time. People do prefer to do
business with people they know, but in SE UK it's seems MUCH more difficult for an
outsider to break into the circle.

--
Regards -Terry

Jaj

    >On Fri, 16 Aug 2002 05:17:11 +0000, davo <[email protected]> wrote:
    >We are planning to have our first child next year. In the UK I will be be able to
    >have enough money to send our children to a good private school where they will
    >receive a world class education. In Australia in my line of work my choices are
    >Sydney and Melbourne the combination of a low salary and high mortgage in both
    >locations means our kids would get a state education, which from my research appears
    >to be anything but world class.

What about the selective state schools in Sydney?

The real question you should be asking yourself is where would you - and your future
children - be *happier*?

That really depends on what is important to you in life.

You may find that the cost of UK housing has increased substantially in the time
you've been away.

    >If you know different I'd love to hear it as despite offering some common sense
    >facts about the downside of Australia (primarily to try to help those in fantasy
    >land) we have not yet decided that we are returning to the UK.

The other factor you should bear in mind is the long term benefit - for both you and
your children - of having dual citizenship, which you'll be able to get if you go for
PR in Australia.



    >For us it always seems to be - what kind of people to we want to be? If we want to
    >be deep, cultured and unselfish people then the obvious move is to return. If we
    >want to be shallow, uncultured and selfish people then the obvious move is to stay.
    >In a nutshell that's our dilemna: deep/cultured/unselfish vs
    >shallow/uncultured/selfish

Obviously you and I live in a different Australia.

Jeremy

Jaj

    >On Thu, 15 Aug 2002 07:58:30 +0000, onlyme <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I also agree with Dugongs. We have been here 2 years this month and will be
    >returning to the UK after our last summer here for a while. We are still applying
    >for PR though.


Why are you bothering to apply for PR if you are going back to live in the UK?

Just curious.

Jeremy

Lisa Deutsch

dugongs <[email protected]> wrote:

[a great post]

Are you sure you weren't describing Holland? Looks like we'll be exchanging only the
weather and space. <g> Luckily I'm an utter pessimist.

Wesley

    > Good place if you are an aussie but to much of a compromise for me and happy to be
    > going home now.

Dude,

Are you sure we are talking about the same Australia here? If so you went to the
wrong city, try Sydney or Melbourne. Granted Sydney clubbing scene, life scene, work
scene perhaps is only 1/10th of that from London, but add the weather and surf,
nothing beats Australia.

Oh wait ........ you couldn't possibly surf! You are a pom! Doh' so I'm just wasting
oxygen typing this message then

Pity that, although to be honest, recently I've seen an increase of the
Irish/Scots/poms surfers. The number still can't be compared to to the Japanese/South
American surfers around Australia, but again if poms (these days) are not so
adventurous anymore

wes

Lisa Deutsch

PS almost forgot:
--
please be gentle to my Polish stalker "mscislaw of poland", he is quite sensitive.

Mscislawofpoland

[email protected] (Lisa Deutsch) wrote...


    >please be gentle to my Polish stalker "mscislaw of poland", he is quite sensitive.


Well, you, Lisa Deutsch, are racist. I am sensitive as far as my fatherland - Poland
is concerned. If you would be attacking just myself - then no problem. But you spread
racist anti-Polish views.

The highest mountain in Australia is named by Polish and has Polish name. There are
several people of Polish origin in Australia too...

Graham

davo <[email protected]> wrote:

    > We are planning to have our first child next year. In the UK I will be be able to
    > have enough money to send our children to a good private school where they will
    > receive a world class education.

I assume this will be a boarding school then as most of those tagged with that label
appear to be. Personally I'd rather have the kids living at home.

There are good schools and there are bad schools in Australia, just as there are good
schools and bad schools in Britain. How much you pay for the privilege of attending
them is not necessarily an indication of their worth.

    > In Australia in my line of work my choices are Sydney and Melbourne the combination
    > of a low salary and high mortgage in both locations means our kids would get a
    > state education, which from my research appears to be anything but world class.

You might want to try asking those poor sods (such as myself) who got a state
education whether or not it is 'world class'. It seems to be enough to get us
into university and jobs. Regarding my point above I suggest you do a bit more
in-depth research.

I'm also surprised that you would have a "low salary" and "high mortgage" in the two
main cities but that this situation would magically be reversed back in Britain. Can
I ask what industry you work in?

    > If you know different I'd love to hear it as despite offering some common sense
    > facts about the downside of Australia (primarily to try to help those in
    > fantasy land)

I guess you learned how to mindlessly snipe in Oz which is proof the education system
teaches something...

    >Our key drivers if we do return are: Grandparents

Family is always the number one issue (or should be). How you decide on this depends
entirely on you so ignore any advice given to you concerning this issue (possibly
including this :-) ).

    > Lifetime friends and missing their births/marriages/kids

You make friends and you lose friends. If they are "lifetime" then you will retain
them over the course of your life wherever you live. If you don't make new ones then
perhaps the problem lies closer to home.

I'm already booked in to fly to Liverpool for a friend's nuptuals next year so that's
one wedding I won't miss. You may not be aware of it but photos and phones have been
introduced to Australia so you can use them to keep in touch with your friends' kids.
I am curious as how you know who will be a lifetime friend so that you are able to
get to their birth
    :-)

    > Education for our kids

See above.

    > Quality of housing we could afford in UK compared to Sydney

I grew up in Australia and have spent the last few years in London (returning in a
couple of months) so I'm well aware of the differences in the quality of housing.
You are using this comparison as a joke, right?

    > My career

Depending on the career this could be a valid option. But as a soon to be parent
perhaps it's the kids you should be considering.

    > Proximity to Europe for trips/hols

Proximity to the Great Barrier Reef and Pacific Islands for trips/hols
    :-)

    > Feeling of being on another planet sometimes

Walk around some of the inner cities in England during the day (let alone the night)
and you'll wonder what planet you're on.

    > British sense of humour and comedy vs anal seriousness of too many Aussies

I said the same thing as I saw another train-spotter on London Bridge station.
Again, perhaps the problems lie closer to home.

    > The key factors that may keep us here are: Weather

True, although it is a glorious summer in the South-East at the moment (only the
second in six years).

    > Cafe lifestyle

Whatever floats your boat - and sea-fishing is a great sport as well :-)

    > Ability to find complete isolation for a weekend when desired

It's called central Brisbane :-)

    > Friends - extremely hard to make in Sydney but after a year we are slowly
    > cracking it

Again, please be aware this may not be a reflection on Australians but on yourselves.
Not that I want it to sound like a criticism but more as introducing a touch of
reality. Regardless of where you are in the world you tend to get out of
relationships what you put into them.

    > Sydney and surrounding areas are fantastic

Agree.

    > Happiness of people vs misery in England

So happy people in Australia suffer from "anal seriousness" while the misery in the
UK produces a "British sense of humour"?

    > Convincing ourselves 24 hours on a plane is a mere hop over the channel

Try doing a 26 hour interstate coach trip because you can't afford planes. Sorry,
just had a flashback then. If you can't be bothered spending a day travelling to a
place perhaps you don't really want to go there...

    > Grandparents (!)

We all have bits of the family we'd rather not meeet again if posible.

    > Beaches

And rips, sharks, blue bottles, needles in the sand...

    > deep/cultured/unselfish vs shallow/uncultured/selfish

Life is never that simple. Don't kid yourself that your decision is in such easy
(and incorrect) terms. Good luck with it, though.

--
Even Sainsburys have refused to give Steve Bruce a loyalty card.

mail at mistfall dot com

pommie bastard

Great to see the defenders of Australia working hard ,how come the only good thing in Australia seems to the weather and beaches,
Also those who think kids will do better here are living in la la land ,most here avoid sunning them selfs 1 in 3 have skin cancer and have found out it also ages skin looking like a leather handbag is not the in look.
Schools here in Perth and most of Australia have no air con so kids are in class rooms that are above 40degs in summer both kids and teachers can not cope with it add that to big classes under funded schools great start in life.
Unemployment here is nearly twice what it is in UK even harder to get jobs for the young.Sport here is god everything else poor second , most skilled and professional people are not Aussie born due to other countrys have better education and training stardards so most companies look for foreign workers first when filling jobs.
If you think UK has draw backs come to the promised land and and find there is no promised land , the land of plenty is only in your dreams.

willywh3r3

How about Ian Thorpe?

pommie bastard

Yes nice lad can swim a bit , what about Mr Hewit more like typical Aussie sportsman .not to bright yob who can play tennis who cares.
Where are the inventors the thinkers , the movers and shakers people who make the world a better place .I like sport and admire people who are good but at the end of the day games are just that and no more.
Sport is hardly mind expanding by the way where the Aussies at the Football World Cup the only game that can be called a World game.

Andrew

Hi Davo,

Thanks for the reply.

How do you define 'world class education'. I was educated in Jamaica (in the West
Indies) up to O'Level and continued by education A'Level
+ 2 degrees in England. Now I admit that in most subjects my Jamaican education was
slightly behind my fellow students at A' Level but all I had to do was work a
little harder and after a couple of terms I was up to the same level. As I went on
to study at Uni. I don't feel I was disadvantaged at all. On the flip side I found
that my peers had a very 'negative' view of life, and realised that this often was
used as a basis of British humour. I missed the Jamaican 'upbeat' view on
everything. It is this British negative view of most things (plus the weather of
course) that eventually made me leave the UK.

In our view there's more to life that just academic records. The happiness that you
experience day-to-day is something that I'm proud and pleased to have experienced
growing up, and I would want my children to have a more light hearted experience than
I think they would get growing up in the UK.

I agree with most of your pros & cons except calling Australian sense of humour
'anal'. It certainly is different and we're getting used to it, and we're finding
that we miss the British sense of humour less and less every day.

The last paragraph is a bit steep - I know quite a few Brits who are shallow, etc and
Aussies who are cultured,etc. One thing I have noticed is that Aussies are very
'clique-y' so a person's experience can often be 'warped' by their group of
friends/work colleagues who may only be representative of narrow group of Aussies.

Regards, AndyH, Brisbane.


davo <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > We are planning to have our first child next year. In the UK I will be be able to
    > have enough money to send our children to a good private school where they will
    > receive a world class education. In Australia in my line of work my choices are
    > Sydney and Melbourne the combination of a low salary and high mortgage in both
    > locations means our kids would get a state education, which from my research
    > appears to be anything but world class.
    > If you know different I'd love to hear it as despite offering some common sense
    > facts about the downside of Australia (primarily to try to help those in fantasy
    > land) we have not yet decided that we are returning to the UK. Our key drivers if
    > we do return are: Grandparents Lifetime friends and missing their
    > births/marriages/kids Education for our kids Quality of housing we could afford in
    > UK compared to Sydney My career Proximity to Europe for trips/hols Feeling of being
    > on another planet sometimes British sense of humour and comedy vs anal seriousness
    > of too many Aussies
    > The key factors that may keep us here are: Weather Cafe lifestyle Ability to find
    > complete isolation for a weekend when desired Friends - extremely hard to make in
    > Sydney but after a year we are slowly cracking it Sydney and surrounding areas are
    > fantastic Happiness of people vs misery in England Convincing ourselves 24 hours on
    > a plane is a mere hop over the channel Grandparents (!) Beaches
    > For us it always seems to be - what kind of people to we want to be? If we want to
    > be deep, cultured and unselfish people then the obvious move is to return. If we
    > want to be shallow, uncultured and selfish people then the obvious move is to stay.
    > In a nutshell that's our dilemna: deep/cultured/unselfish vs
    > shallow/uncultured/selfish