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UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Old Jan 20th 2009, 10:52 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

The offence, or "crime" would probably be that of, "Obtaining a service by deception", which is a recordable offence in the UK. However, as someone else said, it would probably depend on how Canada would view such an offence.
Obviously its not that serious and i cant see it causing you a problem if thats your only blemish. Everyone makes mistakes.

Good luck.
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Old Jan 20th 2009, 11:19 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Originally Posted by Diggler
The offence, or "crime" would probably be that of, "Obtaining a service by deception", which is a recordable offence in the UK. However, as someone else said, it would probably depend on how Canada would view such an offence.
Obviously its not that serious and i cant see it causing you a problem if thats your only blemish. Everyone makes mistakes.
Good luck.
Imagine a professional finds out that it is an offence in Canada as well. Would you suggest that I withdraw now without any hope, or I could be consider admissible on the ground of minor nature of the crime and the fact that caution is not really a conviction in the UK?
The thread of Rubie suggests that
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Old Jan 20th 2009, 11:43 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Originally Posted by myjax
Imagine a professional finds out that it is an offence in Canada as well. Would you suggest that I withdraw now without any hope, or I could be consider admissible on the ground of minor nature of the crime and the fact that caution is not really a conviction in the UK?
The thread of Rubie suggests that
Police caution stays on your file for 3 years, a charge and conviction for 5 IIRC
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Old Jan 20th 2009, 12:55 pm
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Originally Posted by myjax
Imagine a professional finds out that it is an offence in Canada as well. Would you suggest that I withdraw now without any hope, or I could be consider admissible on the ground of minor nature of the crime and the fact that caution is not really a conviction in the UK?
The thread of Rubie suggests that
never ever give up hope

we were strongly advised on here from a so called expert who no longer posts that our dream was hopeless we would get banned from canada for years we would be turned around at the airport etc etc

what a load of hog

we have been here 9 months we have got PNP we have got crim Rehab

so go for it and huge luck
and my husbands crime was far worse than yours!!!!
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Old Jan 20th 2009, 9:28 pm
  #20  
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Hello All

For all those with police cautions do not lose hope just because 5 years has not passed......

After learning from bitter experience, if a police caution was on your record as at March 2006, it will be on your record for life, or until you reach 100. I believe this was after a change in the law following the tragic Sowham Murders where police were found to be deleting records that could have prevented them.

If you wait until after the 5 year mark to find out from the CHC whether your 'crime' makes you inadmisible you will have waited for nothing, as the ACPO cert will be returned as NO LIVE TRACE, this may therefore prompt embassy officials to ask 'if there's no live trace what trace is there?' because clean records come back with NO TRACE stated on them. You will then have to go and get an old fashioned (cheaper) subject access request certificate anyway to show exactly what you have on record.

Honesty is definitely the best policy and to get it sorted sooner rather than later has got to be better than months/years of worrying.

Trying to find out if your 'crime' is a criminal offence in canada is not an easy thing to do. Also, it is worth noting that if you have committed an offence that is considered to be a summary offence in Canada, you may not be inadmissible anyway because you have to have notched up 2 or more of these before you are inadmissible.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/informa...des/5312E3.asp

We found that giving all the info on the Rehab Form on Info Only basis, including a letter about the caution from a UK solicitor was enough for CHC to make a decision BEFORE THE 5 YEAR MARK. So for all those out there wondering what to do - don't lose hope and put in your application.

Best wishes to all.

Rubie

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Old Feb 3rd 2009, 2:34 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Originally Posted by Rubie
Hello All
Honesty is definitely the best policy and to get it sorted sooner rather than later has got to be better than months/years of worrying.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/informa...des/5312E3.asp
We found that giving all the info on the Rehab Form on Info Only basis, including a letter about the caution from a UK solicitor was enough for CHC to make a decision BEFORE THE 5 YEAR MARK. So for all those out there wondering what to do - don't lose hope and put in your application.
Best wishes to all.
Rubie
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THANK YOU VERY MUCH EVERY BODY for your contribution to this thread. I was a way for a while and I am really thankful for your advice.
Thank you Ruibie for all your help and also for your informative thread.
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Old Feb 3rd 2009, 2:37 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Originally Posted by Rubie
We found that giving all the info on the Rehab Form on Info Only basis, including a letter about the caution from a UK solicitor was enough for CHC to make a decision BEFORE THE 5 YEAR MARK. So for all those out there wondering what to do - don't lose hope and put in your application.
I have encountered a problem in getting a solicitor to advise me.
Funny thing is that Criminal Solicitors refer me to Immigration Solicitors as they are not specialised in Immigration Law.
But when I contact Immigration Solicitors in the UK first of all they are specialised in UK immigration system and not in Canadian system, secondly they don't deal with my issue as it is more criminal related matter!
Can I ask for you thoughts guys? I am totally baffled as I am required to explain in my CRIMINAL REHABILITATION FORM details of the incident and reasons why I consider myself to be rehabilitated and why I do not represent a risk to public safety. I prefer a lawyer/solicitor to writ it for me.
But no solicitor seems to be willing to do that.
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Old Feb 3rd 2009, 7:20 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Originally Posted by myjax
I have encountered a problem in getting a solicitor to advise me.
Funny thing is that Criminal Solicitors refer me to Immigration Solicitors as they are not specialised in Immigration Law.
But when I contact Immigration Solicitors in the UK first of all they are specialised in UK immigration system and not in Canadian system, secondly they don't deal with my issue as it is more criminal related matter!
Can I ask for you thoughts guys? I am totally baffled as I am required to explain in my CRIMINAL REHABILITATION FORM details of the incident and reasons why I consider myself to be rehabilitated and why I do not represent a risk to public safety. I prefer a lawyer/solicitor to writ it for me.
But no solicitor seems to be willing to do that.
Presumably you've contacted Canadian lawyers? It's just that you only mention solicitors in the UK, and they are not much use to you!
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Old Feb 3rd 2009, 6:36 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Originally Posted by myjax
I have encountered a problem in getting a solicitor to advise me.
Funny thing is that Criminal Solicitors refer me to Immigration Solicitors as they are not specialised in Immigration Law.
But when I contact Immigration Solicitors in the UK first of all they are specialised in UK immigration system and not in Canadian system, secondly they don't deal with my issue as it is more criminal related matter!
Can I ask for you thoughts guys? I am totally baffled as I am required to explain in my CRIMINAL REHABILITATION FORM details of the incident and reasons why I consider myself to be rehabilitated and why I do not represent a risk to public safety. I prefer a lawyer/solicitor to writ it for me.
But no solicitor seems to be willing to do that.

Due to the unique nature of the UK cautioning system I wanted to include a letter from a UK solicitor as an idiots guide to exactly what my OH's caution was, ie which law had been broken, also whether it came under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act and where it sits in the UK system. I wanted to include this to highlight the fact that it was a caution and not a criminal conviction that involved fines/prison etc.

The letter did not refer to immigration at all as it was not necessary to. The letter needed to be a statement of facts on headed solicitors notepaper.

In our Info Only application, I didn't include anything about which Canadian law may be similar. By including all the facts and circumstances, the Canadian Immigration official was able to make a decision about this and from the reply we received, it appears that because the caution did not come under the ROA, my OH was not considered inadmissible class.

With regard to explaining how you are rehabilitated etc, you can do this yourself, you don't need to pay a solicitor to do this for you. Believe me, by the time you have finished with this subject you will be an expert on it. Take it one point at a time, just like it is asked for on the form. Think of reasons why you genuinely think you are rehabilitated, was it a one off, did you mistakenly believe you were allowed to use the ticket and are now remorseful, are you otherwise upstanding member of the community ie education, good job etc etc.

I know the form seems daunting at first sight but you can do it, it just takes time. Many on here have gone through it ok and have come out the other side.

Good luck with it.

Rubie
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Old Feb 3rd 2009, 6:53 pm
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

to put this all in context so no one reading this thread feels lonely.... I can't remember where i read this, but.
"By the age of thirty, one in three British males will have been convicted of a non-motoring criminal offence."
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Old Feb 5th 2009, 11:35 pm
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Thanks again for your posts
I received my Police Certificate which indicates the incident had been recorded more serious than what I thought and described here, as I'd thought they had not considered the falsification. Anyway, here is the summary of what's happened since 2.5 years ago in full.

Background
In September 2006 I was caught by Transport Police for not having a valid ticket and using my aunt's freedom pass. They also found the card altered with my picture (this alteration of picture was very stupid. I mean it had been done not for the purpose of cheating as it was very crudely done and it had been fixed by sellotape. My friend had done it for me and I explained to them that by no means I meant to use this altered card to represent mine.) Anyway, I admit I had used my aunt's freedom pass to travel.

On the day of incident I was given 2 letters:
1- Record of Caution (From the Police Station)
It states:
Offence: Using a false instrument .S.3&6 F&C Act81
Method used: Using an amended freedom pass for fare evasion

2- From solicitor hired to advise me in the police station
It gives a background to the incident and then it states:
Allegation: You were arrested for the following offences:
a) deception
b) theft
... In interview you stated that you were given the freedom pass and photo card by your aunt. You stated that she gave you the card to use to travel so you did not have to pay. You stated she gave you permission to use it.
On the photo card you admitted that it had been altered with your photograph on it which you stat your friend did it for you.


I denied theft, as I had genuinely been given the pass by my aunt's, therefore it wasn't theft. She is even prepared to state it in a letter if required.

Police Certificate
I have just received my police certificate on which it states:

Offence: Using false instrument for other than prescription for scheduled drug
Court: British Transport Police
(My explanation: although it wasn't a court, but a police station)
Disposal: Caution
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Old Sep 15th 2009, 10:40 pm
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

I'm not sure if you got this figured out yet.
The UK police system has passed the 'silly' level.
However you will be please to know that Canada is aware of this.
Submit the police certificate with your 'spectacular' offense along with an English explanation. (they like to make it sound worse than it is)
Just about everyone has done something stupid as a youngster.

When you arrive in Canada and an Immigration official asks you if you have ever committed
a Criminal offense? (Canada will already be aware as per your submission)
say you once received a Caution for skimping a train ticket as a Kid as reflected on your police record ask him/her if they would like to see it.
(The official will be having difficulty keeping a straight face) or ask you if you serious.
You will be waved in and thats pretty much the last time you will hear about it.
Canada is really more interested in criminals, not youth legacy or destroying lives.
My friend had a much more serious offense from his youth – drunk driving, he was actually found guilty in a court , however as he learn t his lesson and it was clear he had never offended again.
same-thing... they asked he was honest with them and waved him in, never mentioned again.
Welcome to democracy – Welcome to Canada.

You can never get the record changed on the UK system so you just wasting energy, even if you could - a little side note will be added 'just in case' putting you back to square 1, I honestly think you will have no issues - as long as are honest.
No doubt every case on its own merit so use my advise with caution, this one is based on an actual event my friend with the DUI

Last edited by Zxenith; Sep 15th 2009 at 11:02 pm. Reason: Typo's
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Old Oct 4th 2009, 7:35 pm
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Hello Guys,

I am about applying for Police Certificate for the purpose of immigration to canada.

Please i just want to know if the details of your address(es) in the last five years is stated on the certificate.
I will appreciate knowing other details that appears of the certificate.
Thanks for you assistance.

Originally Posted by Zxenith
I'm not sure if you got this figured out yet.
The UK police system has passed the 'silly' level.
However you will be please to know that Canada is aware of this.
Submit the police certificate with your 'spectacular' offense along with an English explanation. (they like to make it sound worse than it is)
Just about everyone has done something stupid as a youngster.

When you arrive in Canada and an Immigration official asks you if you have ever committed
a Criminal offense? (Canada will already be aware as per your submission)
say you once received a Caution for skimping a train ticket as a Kid as reflected on your police record ask him/her if they would like to see it.
(The official will be having difficulty keeping a straight face) or ask you if you serious.
You will be waved in and thats pretty much the last time you will hear about it.
Canada is really more interested in criminals, not youth legacy or destroying lives.
My friend had a much more serious offense from his youth – drunk driving, he was actually found guilty in a court , however as he learn t his lesson and it was clear he had never offended again.
same-thing... they asked he was honest with them and waved him in, never mentioned again.
Welcome to democracy – Welcome to Canada.

You can never get the record changed on the UK system so you just wasting energy, even if you could - a little side note will be added 'just in case' putting you back to square 1, I honestly think you will have no issues - as long as are honest.
No doubt every case on its own merit so use my advise with caution, this one is based on an actual event my friend with the DUI
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Old Oct 4th 2009, 8:12 pm
  #29  
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Originally Posted by proffy
Hello Guys,

I am about applying for Police Certificate for the purpose of immigration to canada.

Please i just want to know if the details of your address(es) in the last five years is stated on the certificate.
I will appreciate knowing other details that appears of the certificate.
Thanks for you assistance.
No they are not.

Tim
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Old Oct 5th 2009, 9:25 am
  #30  
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Regarding the original caution you should look at what the UK offence is and find the Canadian equivalent. Look up the Criminal Code and find the section[s] that are most similar. This appears (without refreshing my memory) to be similar to either a Theft or False Pretenses offence both of which are indictable offences in Canada.

Best advice is to spend a little (no comments please) and contact a criminal lawyer in the province you are hoping to immigrate to and get a specific answer to your issue.
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