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UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Old Jan 19th 2009, 3:24 pm
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Hi guys,
I'm impressed by loads of useful info here. I wonder contribution of kind guys here, will change my current depressing situation
I am 28. I've applied for immigration as an skilled worker and I've been asked to submit my documents as well as my UK Police Clearance Certificate
I was cautioned 2.5 years ago for not having a valid train ticket, and using my auntie's freedom pass (STUPID ME!!!) with her permission though. I don't have my police certificate yet, but I believe this caution will appear in my certificate. Apart from that, my history is absolutely clean in my life.
Is there anybody who can kindly shed some light to my questions as detailed as possible please?

1- How detailed is the police certificate?
Is it in just black and white explanation (e.g. theft, deception,etc.) or it explains the situation in details?

2- How do you assess the nature and severity of my caution?
Considering my file and situation, would you reckon they will consider my caution harmful and consequently don't let me migrate? Or if I get good legal advice, and explaining to them, I would still have a glimmer of hope that I'll have no problems?

3-What do you think is the best thing to do?
My options are:
a) I go ahead with the file, asking legal advice from a solicitor explaining the situation and using Rehabilitation Form (for information only)
If my case is refused, do you think after 5 years gone, if I apply again, this refusal will have a negative effect on my fresh application?
b) I Withdraw my file voluntarily , and wait for 2.5 more years (I HATE THAT ) so that I can get rid of my caution on police certificate?
If I do so, after 5 years gone, will I apply for Rehabilitation or my case will be consider as normal case without any crime or offence and any need for rehabilitation?
c) any other options you can think of?........


To be honest, I am absolutely destroyed since I realised this damn caution, for my stupid mistake would appear in my police certificate and might make me inadmissible to enter Canada. As I have only 1.5 months time, any quick detailed reply from you guys would be highly appreciated.
Let's hope someone will reply to my post soon.
xxx
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Old Jan 19th 2009, 4:36 pm
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

i think you are just going to have to try.

A clean cert says "no trace", i belive the alternative, is that it shows you do have unspent conviction.

From what i have read, i really think its unlikely you will get rehab yet, but you have to give it a try.

You will need to find equivalent Canadian offense, and look at how they would have dealt with you. You will need this to apply for rehab anyway.
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Old Jan 19th 2009, 9:21 pm
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

I believe that cautions can show up if they are less than 5 years old. But you wouldnt know for sure until you get your police cert back.

As mentioned above - the rules say you are inadmissible for an act that was an offense in the place it was committed AND "if committed in Canada, would consititute an indictable offense under an act of parlament"

So the first thing to check is if the last sentance applies. Would not having a valid ticket be an indictable offense in Canada? (I'm afraid I dont know the answer). If not then you are not inadmissible.

If it is and although technically it is too soon to apply for rehabilitation you could declare it and still make an application anyway. make sure you fully describe the circumstances of the offense. It seems so minor that it might not be enough to get your application refused.
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Old Jan 19th 2009, 9:53 pm
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

1-I'm very impressed by the this forum. I hope I can reach conclusion over my matter soon by using this forum and you great guys.
2- I've done an extensive research [in the web] on this topic but the main problem is that the concept of caution is a vague and complex concept.
According to the official website of Canadian Embassy in the UK:
There is no equivalent to a UK ‘Caution’ in Canada. A Caution indicates an admission of guilt for an offence. If you have received a Caution, it must be disclosed and, depending on the offence, it is possible that your Caution may place you in a class of persons inadmissible to Canada - that is, a Caution could have the same effect as if you had been convicted in a UK court. For example if you had a conviction for Assault Occasioning Actual Bodily Harm and you were convicted in a UK Court three years ago, your conviction would not be ‘spent’ under the UK ROA. If you had not been to Court but had instead received a Caution for committing Assault Occasioning Actual Bodily Harm, it would have the same effect as if you had been convicted in Court.
But it adds to confusion here:
In the case of cautions or convictions received in the United Kingdom, you may also wish to provide a legal opinion regarding your rehabilitation under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (ROA).
My problem is that I have loads of information from web (of which I quoted some), but as I am not a technical person in the field of Law, I can't reach conclusion
I put some of them, as much as I can here, hopefully some of you guys can use them and put them together for a conclusion. Although you might already know all about that!
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Old Jan 19th 2009, 11:32 pm
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Originally Posted by marclouis
i think you are just going to have to try.
But if they find me inadmissible, will it have a negative effect on my future application?
I mean after my 5 years is passed.
Or it doesn't make any difference anyway. I mean even if I wait for 2.5 more years (until my caution will be 5 years old) I'll still have declare my cation, although it doesn't turn up in my police certificate?
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Old Jan 19th 2009, 11:40 pm
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Thank you NSpaul for advice.
Originally Posted by NSpaul
If it is and although technically it is too soon to apply for rehabilitation you could declare it and still make an application anyway. make sure you fully describe the circumstances of the offense.
You are right. But the story of Rubie gave me a glimmer of hope that even if the age of the caution is less than 5 years, one can be admissible.
But my main question is that, if I apply and be refused, what I'm gonna lose for my future application? (I mean after 5 years of my caution is gone)
Does it negatively affect my future application or not really?
Originally Posted by NSpaul
It seems so minor that it might not be enough to get your application refused.
Can you please tell me what you exactly mean?
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Old Jan 19th 2009, 11:40 pm
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

As you have been told, you must find the equivalent Canadian criminal code which matches the offence you have in effect admitted guilt to by accepting a caution.

I do not know if the offence/charge you admitted to was either the not having a ticket, or using someone elses pass?

If it is two charges/offences, this complicates matters further. As multiple instances are handled differently.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/ is a good place to start, wording of acts/sections are very similar to UK law in many cases. I guess to get that far you will need the original charge sheet unless you have these already.

and no, if they find you inadmissable while you are applying for rehab, it will not effect you trying again after the 5 years, as 10 years is just not applicable here.
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Old Jan 19th 2009, 11:55 pm
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Originally Posted by myjax
Thank you NSpaul for advice.

You are right. But the story of Rubie gave me a glimmer of hope that even if the age of the caution is less than 5 years, one can be admissible.
But my main question is that, if I apply and be refused, what I'm gonna lose for my future application? (I mean after 5 years of my caution is gone)
Does it negatively affect my future application or not really?
Can you please tell me what you exactly mean?
What I mean is that the offense of travelling without a ticket (as you described it) doesnt seem vastly different from a minor offense such as parking and not buying a ticket to me - a layman in criminal matters. So it could be that a Visa Officer would not consider it, assuming it not to be an indictable offense in Canada. But as others have suggested you should research how this offense is treated in Canada to have a better feel for that.

And if you were found inadmissible I dont believe it would hinder your chances of applying again after 5 years from the date of the offense. What would cause you problems however is if you misrepresented facts on your application and then also became inadmissible for misrepresentation.
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Old Jan 20th 2009, 12:06 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Originally Posted by NSpaul
What I mean is that the offense of travelling without a ticket (as you described it) doesnt seem vastly different from a minor offense such as parking and not buying a ticket to me - a layman in criminal matters. So it could be that a Visa Officer would not consider it, assuming it not to be an indictable offense in Canada. But as others have suggested you should research how this offense is treated in Canada to have a better feel for that.
It's absolutely clear now. Thanks
Originally Posted by NSpaul
And if you were found inadmissible I dont believe it would hinder your chances of applying again after 5 years from the date of the offense. What would cause you problems however is if you misrepresented facts on your application and then also became inadmissible for misrepresentation.
And in order to avoid the risk of giving misrepresented facts, the best way seems to get a solicitor. But the problem is that I have no idea bout lawyers. Do you think immigration consultants such as www.migrationexpert.com or www.workpermit.com etc, would be better or a UK criminal lawyer?
I gotta tell you that the advice you gave me above, is something that a lawyer would charge £150 for a half an hour consultation, but you kindly offered it for free
Thanks
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Old Jan 20th 2009, 12:18 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Originally Posted by myjax
Hi guys,
I'm impressed by loads of useful info here. I wonder contribution of kind guys here, will change my current depressing situation
I am 28. I've applied for immigration as an skilled worker and I've been asked to submit my documents as well as my UK Police Clearance Certificate
I was cautioned 2.5 years ago for not having a valid train ticket, and using my auntie's freedom pass
Were you arrested by a police officer and formally cautioned after due process (including an admission of guilt)?

Or was it just a ticket inspector demanding a fine?
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Old Jan 20th 2009, 12:20 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Originally Posted by myjax
It's absolutely clear now. Thanks

And in order to avoid the risk of giving misrepresented facts, the best way seems to get a solicitor. But the problem is that I have no idea bout lawyers. Do you think immigration consultants such as www.migrationexpert.com or www.workpermit.com etc, would be better or a UK criminal lawyer?
I gotta tell you that the advice you gave me above, is something that a lawyer would charge £150 for a half an hour consultation, but you kindly offered it for free
Thanks
You dont need professional help to avoid misrepresenting yourself - you just have to fully declare all the relevent facts etc.

For advice on immigration matters (if you feel you need help) then you should consult either a Canadian lawyer (that specialises in immigration law) or a CSIC registered Immigration Consultant. You will find the majority of these in Canada. I would be wary of any firms (and I havent looked at the ones you suggested - this is just general advice) that do not have either a Canadian lawyer or CSIC member on staff. I find that many immigration firms in the UK have neither and are therefore basically not qualified or licensed to give advice on Canadian immigration matters.

However, in your case you may not need immigration advice but rather a legal opinion (from a generalist Canadian lawyer) on how your offense would be treated/classified if it was commited in Canada. Then you would know if you needed to become rehabilitated (by being deemed rehabilitated or by applying for rehabilitation) or not. This is not something an immigration consultant/lawyer would necessarily specialise in - they tend to deal only with immigration law.
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Old Jan 20th 2009, 9:48 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Originally Posted by JAJ
Were you arrested by a police officer and formally cautioned after due process (including an admission of guilt)?
Or was it just a ticket inspector demanding a fine?
Sorry, I just saw your post.
In fact I was arrested for having my auntie's free pass with her permission. In fact as I was travelling to do something for her, she offered me her free travel pass (I'm feeling ashamed now, but stupidly I accepted that and I was in the wrong place at the wrong time )
I was held at the police station for the night and the following day I was cautioned and released.
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Old Jan 20th 2009, 9:49 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

what was the wording of the charge(s)?
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Old Jan 20th 2009, 10:02 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Originally Posted by NSpaul
For advice on immigration matters (if you feel you need help) then you should consult either a Canadian lawyer (that specialises in immigration law) or a CSIC registered Immigration Consultant.
Oh. Thank you, I'll be careful in approaching UK firms and definitely take that to account.
Originally Posted by NSpaul
You will find the majority of these in Canada. I would be wary of any firms (and I havent looked at the ones you suggested - this is just general advice) that do not have either a Canadian lawyer or CSIC member on staff. I find that many immigration firms in the UK have neither and are therefore basically not qualified or licensed to give advice on Canadian immigration matters.
I just need a professional lawyer/consultant to tell me how to collect all the documents and evidence, if necessary, As I'm sure, even the wording in the letters matters.
So I assume you suggest that I find a firm/consultant in Canada rather than the UK?
By the way, I contacted the solicitor who assisted me in the Police Station on the day 2.5 years ago and I left her a message. Do you think they'll be able to help me?
I've got a friend in Vancouver, he'll probably be able to help me, but any suggestion? How to approach them? Any web page, or even personal experience?
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Old Jan 20th 2009, 10:08 am
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Default Re: UK Police Caution effects on Canada Immigration

Originally Posted by marclouis
what was the wording of the charge(s)?
I haven't got my Police Certificate yet. But I'll post it here as soon as I receive it.
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