Mark Mercer

As I posted a couple of weeks ago, my wife and I are seriously
considering applying in the Skilled Worker class. Hoping to immigrate to
Canada from the US. Likely heading towards the Toronto area.

I'm an IT Professional with project manager, development manager, and
technical architect skills, as well as being an individual contributor
software engineer. My experience go back over 10 years, so I would get
full points since all are on the professions list. My occupation in
these positions qualifies under NOC codes 0213, 2171, and 2173.

My wife is a personal trainer, group exercise leader and program
supervisor. She qualifies under NOC codes 4167 and 5254.

We're 51 and 50. I'm already getting 4 points off for age, my wife would
get 2 more points as the Primary. Also, my wife has a basic level of
ability in French, while I have none.

If I am the primary applicant, we get 67 points. So we just make the the
current score. As long as we do it before I turn 52 and lose 2 more
points. If my wife is the primary applicant, we currently get 71 points:
2 more for her age, and 2 for basic French (assuming pass on the test).

But my profession is more "substantial", and higher-paid. That's not a
value judgement. It's simply that the IT profession in those roles pays
much more than Fitness Consultants, Instructors, etc. So my work would
be better able to support us, than her work would be.

My question is: Who should be the Primary applicant?

I know the CIC site and instructions say "whichever spouse scores the
highest". But is that really accurate? Does CIC actually make judgements
based on the likelihood of one profession being more lucrative than
another? Or is every job on the NOC list truly scored the same?

And does the spouse who is not the Primary applicant get some
"unofficial" points based on his/her occupation and experience? I know
there is nowhere on the self-assessment where that seems to count. But
wouldn't an application where either spouse would qualify by points have
a better chance of success? Compared to one where the spouse would
otherwise not be able to qualify as the Primary?

In reality, of course, we would both be looking for work in our
professions. As a reality-check, I've found at least a dozen positions
currently listed in the Toronto area for which I believe I'd be a very
good fit. And my wife has professional connections in Canada: she's a
member of CanFitPro, trains in Canada regularly (not enough for it to
score as adaptability points unfortunately), and knows people in many of
the health and fitness facilities. So I do believe we could make a go of
it there.

So what's the advice? My wife apply as Primary, or myself?

I appreciate all advice and reports of experience.

Mark

Andrew Miller

Spouse with higher number of points, period.

There are no "unofficial points" for spouse's occupation - there are only
official points for spouse's education level and Canadian education or
experience.

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
________________________________


"Mark Mercer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > As I posted a couple of weeks ago, my wife and I are seriously
    > considering applying in the Skilled Worker class. Hoping to immigrate to
    > Canada from the US. Likely heading towards the Toronto area.
    > I'm an IT Professional with project manager, development manager, and
    > technical architect skills, as well as being an individual contributor
    > software engineer. My experience go back over 10 years, so I would get
    > full points since all are on the professions list. My occupation in
    > these positions qualifies under NOC codes 0213, 2171, and 2173.
    > My wife is a personal trainer, group exercise leader and program
    > supervisor. She qualifies under NOC codes 4167 and 5254.
    > We're 51 and 50. I'm already getting 4 points off for age, my wife would
    > get 2 more points as the Primary. Also, my wife has a basic level of
    > ability in French, while I have none.
    > If I am the primary applicant, we get 67 points. So we just make the the
    > current score. As long as we do it before I turn 52 and lose 2 more
    > points. If my wife is the primary applicant, we currently get 71 points:
    > 2 more for her age, and 2 for basic French (assuming pass on the test).
    > But my profession is more "substantial", and higher-paid. That's not a
    > value judgement. It's simply that the IT profession in those roles pays
    > much more than Fitness Consultants, Instructors, etc. So my work would
    > be better able to support us, than her work would be.
    > My question is: Who should be the Primary applicant?
    > I know the CIC site and instructions say "whichever spouse scores the
    > highest". But is that really accurate? Does CIC actually make judgements
    > based on the likelihood of one profession being more lucrative than
    > another? Or is every job on the NOC list truly scored the same?
    > And does the spouse who is not the Primary applicant get some
    > "unofficial" points based on his/her occupation and experience? I know
    > there is nowhere on the self-assessment where that seems to count. But
    > wouldn't an application where either spouse would qualify by points have
    > a better chance of success? Compared to one where the spouse would
    > otherwise not be able to qualify as the Primary?
    > In reality, of course, we would both be looking for work in our
    > professions. As a reality-check, I've found at least a dozen positions
    > currently listed in the Toronto area for which I believe I'd be a very
    > good fit. And my wife has professional connections in Canada: she's a
    > member of CanFitPro, trains in Canada regularly (not enough for it to
    > score as adaptability points unfortunately), and knows people in many of
    > the health and fitness facilities. So I do believe we could make a go of
    > it there.
    > So what's the advice? My wife apply as Primary, or myself?
    > I appreciate all advice and reports of experience.
    > Mark

Mark Mercer

In article <eux0c.37973$A12.7174@edtnps84>, Andrew Miller says...
    > Spouse with higher number of points, period.
    >
    > There are no "unofficial points" for spouse's occupation - there are only
    > official points for spouse's education level and Canadian education or
    > experience.

Thanks for the info, Andrew.

I guess I'm a bit surprised at that however. I would think that there
would be a certain amount discretion in the CIC examiner/reviewer's
decision-making. Otherwise it just seems like it should just be done by
a machine.

However, that may be deliberate - to avoid a possibility of claims of
favoritism, unfairness, or arbitrary judgements. It also may reflect
favorably on Canada's equitable societal ideals. No profession that is
needed is viewed as more important to Canada than any other, regardless
of renumeration.

Looks like we apply based on my wife as primary applicant then.

She could get by without me.

I couldn't get by without her.

Pretty much how I feel about her anyway :-)

Andrew Miller

Mark, it was the problem with our old (pre-2002) immigration law and
selection criteria that were based on outdated and never updated list of
occupations. In today's rapidly changing markets occupations that may seem
"hot" at the time you apply for PR visa may be on the unemployment longest
list by the time you get your visa. Thus, it is not really important what is
your occupation today as long as you have minimum required points in
selection grid, are not found inadmissible and as long as in officer's
opinion you **have skills and abilities to economically establish yourself
in Canada**. Some candidates with the score close to 100 may find that in
officer's opinion they don't have what it may take to succeed in Canada and
some short of points may be approved if their skills and abilities are high.
It is not the single profession what counts (except in some rather unique
circumstances) - it is set of skills and experience showing that regardless
what market conditions will be by the time you land in Canada you will be
able to adapt and adjust if necessary. So, someone with PhD and huge
experience studying certain insect found only in remote part of Sahara,
someone who spent entire career doing it, getting max points for education,
experience, languages and spouse's education may have much less chances for
approval than a carpenter, welder or someone who has demonstrated successful
career changing occupations, learning new trades and gaining experience in
various fields but lacking a degree.

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
________________________________


"Mark Mercer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > In article <eux0c.37973$A12.7174@edtnps84>, Andrew Miller says...
    > > Spouse with higher number of points, period.
    > >
    > > There are no "unofficial points" for spouse's occupation - there are
only
    > > official points for spouse's education level and Canadian education or
    > > experience.
    > Thanks for the info, Andrew.
    > I guess I'm a bit surprised at that however. I would think that there
    > would be a certain amount discretion in the CIC examiner/reviewer's
    > decision-making. Otherwise it just seems like it should just be done by
    > a machine.
    > However, that may be deliberate - to avoid a possibility of claims of
    > favoritism, unfairness, or arbitrary judgements. It also may reflect
    > favorably on Canada's equitable societal ideals. No profession that is
    > needed is viewed as more important to Canada than any other, regardless
    > of renumeration.
    > Looks like we apply based on my wife as primary applicant then.
    > She could get by without me.
    > I couldn't get by without her.
    > Pretty much how I feel about her anyway :-)