Salvaging PR Status if Possible

Old Jan 23rd 2017, 1:08 am
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Default Re: Salvaging PR Status if Possible

Originally Posted by Farmhand
I have been looking at the CIC document "OP 10 Permanent Residency Status Determination" . If you get a determination it says you will be issued with a PRTD valid for 6 months for your inbound travel to Canada but I can't find anything further.

Does anyone know what happens next - for example after I've arrived back in Canada would I then have to stay an unbroken 2 year period and obtain a new PR card before traveling outside Canada or will I be issued with a new PR card on my return?
You would have to apply for a new PR card once back in Canada if you wished to travel. Any time you leave the country unless a brand new PR the authorities will look to see if you have met the residency obligation on your return. They will go back 5 years from the date of entry. If you are a new PR and have not had 5 years as a PR they will look to see if you can meet the residency obligation within the initial 5 year period.

This CIC Manual might explain it better than OP10
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resourc.../enf23-eng.pdf
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Old Jan 23rd 2017, 2:12 am
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Default Re: Salvaging PR Status if Possible

Thanks Former Lancastrian - I am confused by this statement "ENF 23 Loss of permanent resident status
2015-01-23 37
Also new is the presumption that a person outside Canada, and who is not in possession of a
permanent resident document, is presumed not to have permanent resident status A31(2)(b). "

As my card expired in 2015 this paragraph would seem to suggest I don't have currently have permanent residence status. Elsewhere in the document it says I have PR status until officially revoked ??
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Old Jan 23rd 2017, 2:15 am
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Default Re: Salvaging PR Status if Possible

When you apply to renew your PR card (an in Canada application) they will look at the previous 5 years from the date of your application unless you are a new PR as FL has pointed out.

PS you have PR status until an official determination has occurred which results in you no longer having that status for example you apply for a PRTD or a PR card and it's refused, you renounce or you become a citizen. If you get to the border you will be allowed to enter (as you are a PR) but you may be later removed.

Last edited by Snowy560; Jan 23rd 2017 at 2:20 am.
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Old Jan 23rd 2017, 2:17 am
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Default Re: Salvaging PR Status if Possible

Originally Posted by Farmhand
Thanks Former Lancastrian - I am confused by this statement "ENF 23 Loss of permanent resident status
2015-01-23 37
Also new is the presumption that a person outside Canada, and who is not in possession of a
permanent resident document, is presumed not to have permanent resident status A31(2)(b). "

As my card expired in 2015 this paragraph would seem to suggest I don't have currently have permanent residence status. Elsewhere in the document it says I have PR status until officially revoked ??
You have it until you officially don't have it. Even though the PRESUMPTION is that you don't have it, you do not OFFICIALLY not have it until you go through the process. (I can presume that you are a male, but until I see you, I can't know for sure. Presumption is not the same as fact.)

So as of right now, yes, you are a PR. However, when you cross into Canada, the officer will see that you don't meet the requirements, and will start the process to formally revoke your PR.
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Old Jan 23rd 2017, 2:26 am
  #20  
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Default Re: Salvaging PR Status if Possible

Originally Posted by SchnookoLoly
You have it until you officially don't have it. Even though the PRESUMPTION is that you don't have it, you do not OFFICIALLY not have it until you go through the process. (I can presume that you are a male, but until I see you, I can't know for sure. Presumption is not the same as fact.)

So as of right now, yes, you are a PR. However, when you cross into Canada, the officer will see that you don't meet the requirements, and will start the process to formally revoke your PR.

Yes I understand now...........I think
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Old Jan 23rd 2017, 2:28 am
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Default Re: Salvaging PR Status if Possible

Originally Posted by SchnookoLoly
You have it until you officially don't have it. Even though the PRESUMPTION is that you don't have it, you do not OFFICIALLY not have it until you go through the process. (I can presume that you are a male, but until I see you, I can't know for sure. Presumption is not the same as fact.)

So as of right now, yes, you are a PR. However, when you cross into Canada, the officer will see that you don't meet the requirements, and will start the process to formally revoke your PR.
I tend to think that if the overseas office has just issued the PRTD then they should have determined if they don't meet the obligation then a 44(1) report should have been written on them prior to issuing the PRTD.
Yes a CBSA officer could in fact start the process once arriving back in Canada if no report was written.
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Old Jan 23rd 2017, 3:09 am
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Default Re: Salvaging PR Status if Possible

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian
You would have to apply for a new PR card once back in Canada if you wished to travel. Any time you leave the country unless a brand new PR the authorities will look to see if you have met the residency obligation on your return. They will go back 5 years from the date of entry. If you are a new PR and have not had 5 years as a PR they will look to see if you can meet the residency obligation within the initial 5 year period.

This CIC Manual might explain it better than OP10
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resourc.../enf23-eng.pdf
So in practical terms a PRTD confers no additional benifits other than that of allowing you to arrive on public transport i.e I could fly to the USA with out a PRTD and then drive accross the border and my status within Canada would be exactly the same?
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Old Jan 23rd 2017, 3:12 am
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Default Re: Salvaging PR Status if Possible

Originally Posted by Farmhand
So in practical terms a PRTD confers no additional benifits other than that of allowing you to arrive on public transport i.e I could fly to the USA with out a PRTD and then drive accross the border and my status within Canada would be exactly the same?
Yep. As the name implies, it's just a travel document for PR's, allowing them to travel via boat/plane/bus/train if they do not have a valid PR card (i.e. it's expired, or they haven't received it yet).
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Old Jan 23rd 2017, 3:13 am
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Default Re: Salvaging PR Status if Possible

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian
I tend to think that if the overseas office has just issued the PRTD then they should have determined if they don't meet the obligation then a 44(1) report should have been written on them prior to issuing the PRTD.
Yes a CBSA officer could in fact start the process once arriving back in Canada if no report was written.
I will be re-applying for my PR card now i am resident in Canada again..i had my PRTD done and approved in London in November...when i reapply for my card do i just send in the same information i submitted previously...will CIC know that my PRTD has already been approved when they receive my application?
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Old Jan 23rd 2017, 3:23 am
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Default Re: Salvaging PR Status if Possible

Originally Posted by cheeky_monkey
I will be re-applying for my PR card now i am resident in Canada again..i had my PRTD done and approved in London in November...when i reapply for my card do i just send in the same information i submitted previously...will CIC know that my PRTD has already been approved when they receive my application?
CIC will know a PRTD was issued. You might also get a residency questionnaire if they suspect you don't meet the residency obligation.
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Old Jan 23rd 2017, 3:48 am
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Default Re: Salvaging PR Status if Possible

I don't want to come across as completely dumb on this but for the avoidance of doubt -

What I've read and the comments on this forum seem to indicate that a PR who doesn't or cant meet the Residency Obligation but is successful in obtaining a PRTD (on whatever grounds) gets just a single use / one shot document that guarantees him unimpeded entry into Canada on just a single occasion. After that he risks being written up for RO contravention if an attempt is made to travel again before becoming eligible for and obtaining a PR card?
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Old Jan 23rd 2017, 3:52 am
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Default Re: Salvaging PR Status if Possible

Originally Posted by Farmhand
I don't want to come across as completely dumb on this but for the avoidance of doubt -

What I've read and the comments on this forum seem to indicate that a PR who doesn't or cant meet the Residency Obligation but is successful in obtaining a PRTD (on whatever grounds) gets just a single use / one shot document that guarantees him unimpeded entry into Canada on just a single occasion. After that he risks being written up for RO contravention if an attempt is made to travel again before becoming eligible for and obtaining a PR card?
No, it doesn't 'guarantee unimpeded entry' in to Canada, it's simply a travel document i.e. allows you to get on the plane. Once you get to Canada, the same process applies as if you had travelled without one i.e. if the immi officer spots you haven't met your RO, then the process will be started to revoke PR status.

HTH.
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Old Jan 23rd 2017, 4:56 am
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Default Re: Salvaging PR Status if Possible

Originally Posted by christmasoompa
No, it doesn't 'guarantee unimpeded entry' in to Canada, it's simply a travel document i.e. allows you to get on the plane. Once you get to Canada, the same process applies as if you had travelled without one i.e. if the immi officer spots you haven't met your RO, then the process will be started to revoke PR status.

HTH.

Ok, I'm sorry but I think we must be at crossed purposes

The PRTD that I am referring to is the one that would be issued following a positive determination of permanent residence status by an Immigration Officer (at the visa office) following his/her consideration of the mitigating circumstances presented by the expired PR applying for a travel document and therefore initiating the whole process.
My assumption previously was that your 5 year period was some how "reset" I appreciate that might not be the case but if an Officer officially sanctioned retention of status that must surely carry forward to your physical presence in Canada not just at the POE?
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Old Jan 23rd 2017, 5:05 am
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Default Re: Salvaging PR Status if Possible

I think you are grasping at straws here.

Here's my view of the situation, others can step in if I'm wrong.

1) You cannot board a plane to Canada with an expired PR card. The airline will deny you boarding. So in order to be able to get on the plane, you need to apply for a PR Travel Document (PRTD).

2) When you apply for the PRTD, you will be hoping that the officer who examines your application does not notice that you cannot meet your residency obligation.
>>If the officer does not notice, then you'll get your PRTD, and you can board the plane.
>>If the officer does notice, your PRTD will be rejected and the officer will start the process of having your PR formally revoked.

3) If you do get the PRTD, you fly to Canada. At the point of entry, the officer again has to make the determination on whether or not you will meet your residency obligation.
>>If the officer does not notice, you will be allowed entry into Canada
>>If the officer does notice, you will still be allowed entry, but the officer will start the process of having your PR formally revoked.

4) If the first officer grants you a PRTD *AND* you make it past the border, then you can stay in Canada for 2 full years and THEN apply to renew your PR, as you will then satisfy the requirement of 2 years of residency.
Applying to renew your PR at the time when you first get into CAnada you will for sure have it rejected because in order to renew your PR you have to fill out a residency questionnaire, so they'll for sure see that. So if you do get in, you have to stay put for 2 years so that when you fill out that questionnaire you can actually show your 2 years of residency.

Does that make more sense?
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Old Jan 23rd 2017, 5:10 am
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Default Re: Salvaging PR Status if Possible

Originally Posted by Farmhand
I don't want to come across as completely dumb on this but for the avoidance of doubt -

What I've read and the comments on this forum seem to indicate that a PR who doesn't or cant meet the Residency Obligation but is successful in obtaining a PRTD (on whatever grounds) gets just a single use / one shot document that guarantees him unimpeded entry into Canada on just a single occasion. After that he risks being written up for RO contravention if an attempt is made to travel again before becoming eligible for and obtaining a PR card?
My PRTD has multiple entries as this is what i requested.
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