Former Lancastrian

Where did I say PR expires? As a PR you have the right to enter Canada. True until a decision has been made you do not lose PR status even if reported and issued a removal order as there is an appeal period and the removal order has to be enforceable which is after 30 days of issue unless an appeal has been launched. What the Act does say is this

Status document

31. (1) A permanent resident and a protected person shall be provided with a document indicating their status.
Marginal note:Effect

(2) For the purposes of this Act, unless an officer determines otherwise
(a) a person in possession of a status document referred to in subsection (1) is presumed to have the status indicated; and
(b) a person who is outside Canada and who does not present a status document indicating permanent resident status is presumed not to have permanent resident status.

Basically what section 31(2)(b) is saying is if you are outside of Canada and you don't have a PR card or the status document then you are not a PR.
Also from CIC Manual ENF 23
General Presumptions - unless an officer determines otherwise -
A person in possession of permanent resident card is presumed to have permanent resident (PR) status.
A person who is outside Canada and who does not present a permanent resident card is presumed not to have permanent resident (PR) status.
A31(2)(a) and (b)

Providing the computer systems are up and running then Yes a CBSA officer can check a persons status to see if they meet or can meet the residency obligation but IF and its a highly unlikely IF if the person arrives at a POE without proof of PR status (i.e. valid PR card or the travel document and counterfoil issued by CIC overseas) then I COULD refuse that person entry into Canada as I can deem them not to be a PR. Most likely their examination would be deferred until they can present proof of their status.
The sentence you are taking issue with is correct in saying a person who meets or can meet the 730 day residency obligation has to be admitted based on them proving at the time of entry they are a PR.
No card or no travel document and outside Canada then NOT a PR as per the Act.

Shirtback

URGH!! . I didn't say you did .

Apologies to the OP for thread swerve.

Putatively, in your capacity as a CBSA agent:

person rocks up to border with expired PR card, visa-exempt passport, proof of meeting residency obligation. What do you do?

person rocks up to border with expired PR card, visa-exempt passport, clearly does not meet residency obligation. What do you do?

I am sincerely curious, not confrontational . I know what the law says, I'm interested in how it's applied in practice...

Former Lancastrian

In your 2 x examples an expired PR card is being presented and visa exempt passport and one meets the residency obligation and one doesn't.
After a quick check in FOSS/GCMS and questioning example #1 and Im satisfied they meet or can meet the residency obligation I admit them and strongly suggest they apply for a new PR card if they intend to travel outside Canada in the future or apply for citizenship if eligible.

Example #2 I would report them for failing to meet the residency obligation and have a Superintendent issue a removal order and inform them of their appeal process and what they must do if not appealing the removal order. They are then admitted as the removal order is not enforceable at that present time.

As for those who arrive without a valid or expired PR card or travel document and counterfoil then I have several options available to me of which one is REFUSING entry.
This is all based on CIC legislation and Im a CBSA officer enacting their legislation at a POE.

Shirtback

Thank you!

(I really was not challenging your authority)

Former Lancastrian

No problem but the whole CIC thing about if outside Canada without a PR card is a pain as CIC suggest one thing, the airlines really don't give a shit unless you require a visa and CBSA usually end up letting you in if you make it back to Canada.
One of these days I will read about a PR outside of Canada with no PR card or travel document and holding a visa exempt passport being denied boarding an aircraft and it costing them a few thousand dollars and bitching like hell

PMM

Hi

1. That may not be as far in the future as you think. When the ETA is finally up and running in the new year (whatever one it is), I assume that if you are visa exempt, and a PR (with an expired card, no card) that when you apply for the ETA, it will come back with a sorry, you need either a valid PR card or a TD to fly. But who knows if it will work that way, as I assume it will check the CIC data bank for info, before authorizing.

kleinluka

Hi PMM. Long time no see! I found some info on the eTa progrma yesterday.
Edit: found a link (http://www.cicnews.com/2015/04/canad...rs-045096.html)

@Former Lancastrian, I had no idea you were a CBSA officer. That's great

I just calculated my days in Canada, counting backwards 5 years from June 1, 2015 which is approximately when I plan to arrive, and I got 852 days. So I am definitely above the required 730 days mark.

So, according to you, if I were to walk up to your booth and presented you with a comprehensive list of departures and re-entries for the last 5 years and passport stamps to back up said list, my expired PR card, a German passport, record of landing, maybe even some pay stubs, but without PRTD, and travelling from Germany on a return-ticket...I assume I would not face any significant problems besides the obvious "grilling"which I understand is necessary and perhaps some scolding for not carrying a valid PR card?

Former Lancastrian

Correct providing the carrier (airline) let you get on the flight.

Shirtback

I tend to agree. One clear rule for all PR card holders, regardless of passport, would be better.

The ETA is going to set the cat amongst the pigeons if other recent CIC online service roll-outs are anything to go by ...

kleinluka

Hi guys. So everything went well at the airport. Thanks again for the advice.

Now, I have one question about applying for my new PR card while I am in Canada... Under "current residential address in Canada" I am going to put my friend"s address. However I am wondering if this would not raise some eyebrows at CIC since under "employment history" my present employer is still in Germany "2013-present". Any feedback on this would be much appreciated before I send off the application. Thanks!

SchnookoLoly

You have to provide a Canadian address, they won't send it abroad, so giving your friend's address is just fine.