Tiaribbon

Sorry but Canada isn't interested in how long it takes to learn Arabic, or any other language for that matter. Canada is purely interested in people whom they think will be assets to Canada. They use the Point System (whether you deem fair or unfair is irrelevant) to assess this. Unfortunately it isn't a "first come, first served" basis - they call the shots at all time throughout the process.

Personally, the fact that the passmark used to be 75, and was then dropped to 67 was enough for me to decide that had I not achieved a score in excess of 75 I would not have even bothered applying just incase the passmark had been raised again.

I don't know if you are aware of the fact that there are many other Categories in which to apply and that the Passmark is not an "across the board" 67 points. I was assessed at having 78 points, however the Category which I applied under only needed 35 points.

I definitely agree with Andrew though, that in the 3 - 5 years it may take to even have your application assessed, you certainly have lots of time to increase your points.

Ashok

It is understandable that CIC was still getting enough applicants with 75 points or more, but not from many countries. Their so called quota system was up for a serious knock. If I remember the developments during the period points were rolled back, I understand CIC was passing through following Dilemma.

1) Many CHC offices stopped getting even a single application. Which could have badly affected diversity in immigrants.

2) Some of those who could score 75 or more points, were well educated couples who were already well settled in their own country and hardly felt like immigrating from Countries like UK or France or Korea etc. ( So choice was third world countries). Even professionals with masters or doctrate from India or China are also reluctant to think of immigration as they are well settled.

3) Canada also stopped getting applications from Young Technocrats, even if they were masters degree holder from US or Canadian University but Single. ( Such young talent pool started going elsewhere , unless they married Post graduate and got more points, or else had a relative in Canada or scored well in IELTS & TEF Both.

CIC point system is still very much flawed and they have to think many times before they plan to raise the pass points. I think they know exactly what happened when they kept it at 75 and what will happen if they raise it now.
I dont think pleasing certain ethinc group was the only reason.

It is funny, many applicants with points greater than 80 keep waiting while we keep justifying that CIC will do what is good for Canada. I believe Canada has no need for those who have high points. Canada need wood cutters / truck drivers / farm labour, not engineers.

Andrew Miller

Where are you getting your data from???!! There was not a single visa post that couldn't meet it's targets with 75 points pass mark.

Colsgirl

They were certainly very busy when we applied with 75 points. We were quoted an 18 month wait and it was spot on. If they were as quiet as you seem to think, I would have expected our processing time to have been a lot faster.

Tangram

Perhaps the moral here is just 'suck it up and stop whinging'. I am more than likely not going to get in without a job, so I am persuing that avenue. I am not sat here moaning that I haven't got enough points or worrying that they will raise the limit again.

Just get on with your life, it's not a rehearsal. I suspect moaning about it on a forum isn't going to change the Canadian Govt stance one way or the other

andy_sheila

Great attitude, i would wish you luck but with your attitude you won't need it

hankim2

Retroactive application of increased pass mark may not be that straight- forward. Many previous threads with diverse opinions can be found in this forum. Check out "Passing mark and retroactivity" thread on Jul 27 2004 for quite an exhaustive discussion.

NikkiNu

I dont imagine that anyone expects the Canadian Govt to make decisions based on anything in this forum. Doubt they even look at it.
I agree with you that we all have one life and we should make the most of it. That is what my husband and I and I'm sure a lot of other wanna be Canadian citizens do (especially now there is such a long delay from AOR to applications being processed). However, sometimes the uncertainty is stressful. Will the points change? Will the criteria change? etc, etc......
We thought long and hard about where we wanted to live, we investigated all of our options and after much deliberation decided on Canada. However, the path to a new life in Canada is not as smooth as we hoped.
I am not moaning, I just want to get on with it and I am sure a lot of other people who contribute to the forum feel the same, especially if they have children whom they are also making life changing decisions for.
The ambiguity and possibly impending changes make it uncertain for us all and I guess having a forum and sharing thoughts and stresses with others who are in a similar position helps.
Nik

Tangram

Disagree IMHO

Andrew Miller

I was active participant in the thread you mention and nothing changed since. Retroactivity as defined here:

http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor2-227/sec77.html

has been already upheld by court in February 2003. It is in the law and already has been used in Sep 2003 without being challenged. "Many diverse opinions" from applicants in this and other forums won't change anything, sorry.

hankim2

What I was pointing out was that Mr Miller's opinion remains what it is, an opinion amongst the many found in this thread. There were also other cogent opinions given as to why retroactive application of increased pass mark will not take place (and having read the earlier threads, I would agree with it notwithstanding what has been cited by Mr Miller and his standing)

iaink

As the law stands it would certainly appear to be unfair if the points change. But who said this had anything to do with fairness, the law exists to serve canadas best interests, not the candidates.

Laws change though, and it would take a very firm will from an incumbent minister not to bend in the face of the maelstrom of public outrage were the current law to be applied in the case of a points hike.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if something happened to sweeten an otherwise bitter pill. No one in their right mind of course would guarantee that anything will change, so the experts are correct to council that the law is retroactive, but I have my suspicions that in a country where 25% of the electorate are not born in Canada, that there would be a softening of the law in the event of the major backlash that would be inevitable if in process applicants have to meet a new higher threshold.

Only one way to find out though, isnt there

marhaba

I see where you are coming from, I just don't agree with you. Seems that you are taking a profoundly simplistic approach by throwing around words suggesting that people 'find arranged employment instead."

We often hear about professionals with advanced degrees not finding suitable employment AFTER immigration to Canada, qualified physicians driving cabs. I could go on. HRDSC seems to have its hands full trying to find employment for immigrants already landed. There are always clusters of industries in which truly foreign workers would be required; fruit pickers, lorry drivers also among them. Have nothing against these professions; it’s just not my area of expertise.

Similarly, regarding those thousands of work permit holders already in Canada have nothing to do with the issue of adjusting of pass marks IMHO. Many things at work here, occupation in demand, visa waiver passport holders (free to travel for interview, just bust in for interviews etc). I expected something more substantive from you, sorry.

Further it seems contradictory to mention on one hand that immigration policies (floating pass marks etc) are used as tools, and on the other hand also say pass marks most recently were lowered to please ‘ethnic groups.” Well, which one is it?

Look I do agree that every country will (and should) uphold legislature that best suits its interests, in this case immigration wise. That is how it should be. However, there should be a system of checks and balances. Different visa posts have different processing times. So it’s quite conceivable that from two people with similar qualifications/ experience and applying only one may eventually be accepted and other one caught on the wrong side of the pass marks. Fair?

Your analogy of the suffering 75 point SW candidates seems mute, really. You forget to mention that earlier more emphasis was on work experience, now it’s on education. Perhaps some who (barely) qualified under the old grid were out in the cold after points were lowered. Also, what will you say to these 75 pointers if the marks now are raised well over 75 and these sufferers do not qualify anymore?

Colsgirl

What it all comes down to is the points system is what best benefits Canada. At the end of the day if you do not get it, they aren't bothered. They can pick and choose from the applicants and that is their prerogative. This may sound tough, but at the end of the day we choose to apply and when we apply, this is under the CHC's terms and conditions.

I wish the British Government was stricter on who it let it. If it tackled immigration, crime and education then so many educated/work experienced Brits would not be queueing up in droves to leave the country. When we talk to fellow Brits and you ask them why they left, those three things come up and also a better quality of life.

Andrew Miller

Sorry, but you are missing the point.

Current law with 75 points pass mark worked quite well - only those who had 75 or more points were applying and processing times started being much shorter. And there was no lack of candidates with 75 points to meet annual targets. Then pass mark has been lowered to 67 points making selection criteria much easier than it was under the old law which was blamed for 400,000 backlog - and now we have 800,000 backlog.

Immigrants are losing here and Canada is losing too. With 75 points pass mark those who have enough points would be approved in 10 to 18 months (depending from visa post) and those with less points would have to improve their qualifications before applying.

Now all are thrown into the same abyss, a black hole of huge backlog which now (assuming 50% statistical refusal rate) will take 7 years to clear. So, those with 75 or more points (including those with firm job offers and those on work permits already) have to wait 4 to 7+ years (depending from visa post), just as those with 67 points who don't do anything to improve their score and only complain about possibility of increase of the pass mark.

Nothing in respect to overal timeline changed for those with 67 points when pass mark was lowered - if they have postponed their application until they improved their qualifications and then have it approved in 10 to 18 months they would have received their PR visas in about (or faster) same time as they will now with pass mark at 67 points level.

But everything changed for those with 75 points and for Canadian economy - they must now wait at least 3 to 7+ years to be approved (instead of 10 to 18 months) and Canadian economy is losing those good candidates who have no patience to wait and/or have opportunity to immigrate to other countries instead. Canada is losing the brightest candidates with great adaptability skills and resourcefullness to other countries that offer faster process.

And unfortunately as a result Canada is also now getting too many immigrants who will not succeed here and will end up complaining in this and other forums that they cannot find job after immigrating.