Jagzeur

What do you guys think of this?

"OTTAWA - Federal plans to test immigrants and refugees for HIV are
discriminatory and run counter to good public health practices, according to a
report due out on Tuesday.

The Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network prepared the study, and says banning immigrants
on the grounds they carry the virus would go against United Nations policies, as well
as those of the World Health Organization. Health Minister Allan Rock and Immigration
Minister Elinor Caplin announced.... introducing mandatory screening......

And the chair of the health minister's own council on AIDS says mandatory screening
would only stigmatize and marginalize people from certain ethnic groups.

"Right away, people look at this policy as a policy to keep out Africans and
Caribbeans," said Dr. Don Kilby.

Besides,... keeping HIV positive immigrants out of the country won't stop the spread
of the disease... Kilby says most new cases of HIV are caused by unsafe sex practices
among people already living in Canada.

Kilby points to the United States, where HIV positive immigrants were barred several
years ago – and HIV infection rates continued to climb.

Jack

Sounds reasonable to me.In fact,all health screening should be dropped because it
discriminates against the most vulnerable among us.

The Provincial health systems can easily handle the influx of people with
AIDS,TB,Yellow Fever,malaria,Dengue fever and the thousands of other exotic
communicable diseases that can be found in the developing world.

Jagzeur wrote:

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Peter

Applying for Canadian PR could mean death sentence for some.

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Peter

Imagine yourself a taxpayer in Canada, would you want to share medical expenses for a
chronic sick person imported by your government?

Imagine yourself living in a healthy neighbourhood, would you want some outsider to
come and spread dangerous germs around?

Canadians are gracious to open its door to thousands of immigrants they have every
right to choose based on what they think are beneficial to Canada. They don't owe us
anything. Nor are they obliged to take us in. Those who managed to make it(including
myself) should show appreciation to our gracious Canadian hosts for their generosity
and kindness.

Peter

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[usenetquote2]>> What do you guys think of this?[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> "OTTAWA - Federal plans to test immigrants and refugees for HIV are discriminatory[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> and run counter to good public health practices, according to a report due out on[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> Tuesday.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> The Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network prepared the study, and says banning[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> immigrants on the grounds they carry the virus would go against United Nations[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> policies, as well as those of the World Health Organization. Health Minister Allan[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> Rock and Immigration Minister Elinor Caplin announced.... introducing mandatory[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> screening......[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> And the chair of the health minister's own council on AIDS says mandatory[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> screening would only stigmatize and marginalize people from certain ethnic groups.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> "Right away, people look at this policy as a policy to keep out Africans and[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> Caribbeans," said Dr. Don Kilby.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> Besides,... keeping HIV positive immigrants out of the country won't stop the[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> spread of the disease... Kilby says most new cases of HIV are caused by unsafe sex[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> practices among people already living in Canada.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> Kilby points to the United States, where HIV positive immigrants were barred[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> several years ago - and HIV infection rates continued to climb.[/usenetquote2]

V K

There is an unclear (to me) moral issue here. Does anyone have the right to live in
a first world country and pick who to allow to live and work in dignified
conditions? While I am not suggesting to let anyone into this country, this is
something to ponder.

The argument that "one chooses their own government and why don't you people from
crappy countries just learn how to live well on your own" seems rather invalid when
applied to individuals, because there is only so much one can do as an individual in
building a fair society.

vlad

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Serge

Nobody has the right to move to Canada or to any other country just because they
want to live in "dignified conditions". Being granted permanent residency in any
country is a privilege which must be earned and for which person must qualify. It is
up to each country to set the rules for selection of immigrants - rules that
majority of citizens of that country can agree with and approve, just like currently
new Canadian immigration law is going through the approval process in the
Parliament. Those rules may include health requirements if country chooses to
include it in selection criteria.

Your argument about individuals is flawed to start with - Canada was created by
individuals and individuals in any country have the power to make their country
better if they have the will to do so. But many of them are just looking for handouts
and for better life just to be given to them on the silver plate. So later, after
they are in Canada and they have to work to earn living they blame Canada and
Canadians for their own failure, like some unhappy posters recently in this group...

Serge

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[usenetquote2]>> Canadians are gracious to open its door to thousands of immigrants they[/usenetquote2]
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[usenetquote2]>> every right to choose based on what they think are beneficial to Canada.[/usenetquote2]
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[usenetquote2]>> don't owe us anything. Nor are they obliged to take us in. Those who[/usenetquote2]
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[usenetquote2]>> make it(including myself) should show appreciation to our gracious[/usenetquote2]
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[usenetquote2]>> hosts for their generosity and kindness.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>> Peter[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]>>[/usenetquote2]

Burak Ataman

Peter; I fully agree with you as a possible immigrant. The other way around it would
not be the dream country anymore.

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[usenetquote2]> >Sounds reasonable to me.In fact,all health screening should be dropped because it[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >discriminates against the most vulnerable among us.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >The Provincial health systems can easily handle the influx of people with[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >AIDS,TB,Yellow Fever,malaria,Dengue fever and the thousands of other exotic[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >communicable diseases that can be found in the developing world.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >Jagzeur wrote:[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> What do you guys think of this?[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> "OTTAWA - Federal plans to test immigrants and refugees for HIV are[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> discriminatory and run counter to good public health practices, according to a[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> report due out on Tuesday.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> The Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network prepared the study, and says banning[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> immigrants on the grounds they carry the virus would go against United Nations[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> policies, as well as those of the World Health Organization. Health Minister[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> Allan Rock and Immigration Minister Elinor Caplin announced.... introducing[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> mandatory screening......[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> And the chair of the health minister's own council on AIDS says mandatory[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> screening would only stigmatize and marginalize people from certain ethnic[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> groups.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> "Right away, people look at this policy as a policy to keep out Africans and[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> Caribbeans," said Dr. Don Kilby.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> Besides,... keeping HIV positive immigrants out of the country won't stop the[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> spread of the disease... Kilby says most new cases of HIV are caused by unsafe[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> sex practices among people already living in Canada.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> Kilby points to the United States, where HIV positive immigrants were barred[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> several years ago - and HIV infection rates continued to climb.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
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Jagzeur

Seems like our discussion is moot. Again from the CBC website:

Ottawa reverses plan to ban HIV immigrants WebPosted Tue Jun 12 17:39:25 2001 OTTAWA
- The federal government has reversed its plan to ban people with HIV from coming
into the country.

Immigration Minister Elinor Caplan said the outright ban will be replaced by a
case-by-case review.

The shift comes after Health Canada downgraded the public health threat of
the disease.

Last fall, Caplan and Health Minister Allan Rock announced plans to screen immigrants
for HIV and hepatitis B. They said introducing mandatory screening would help stop
the spread of the diseases.

Lobby groups called the proposal discriminatory and bad public health policy.

Under the new plan, immigrants would still be tested but with a view to getting
appropriate treatment, Caplan said.

In some cases the Immigration Department could still bar people deemed to be placing
an excessive burden on the system.

Health Canada estimates about one immigrant in 1,000 has HIV – about 220 people in
total last year.

Meagan Jaynes

I have to agree with you on this. I immigrated from Canada to the US and had to go
through their disease screens. One reason they do it is to help stop the spread, but
its mainly because they don't want that immigrant to be a burden. It will be hard for
someone to get insurance with a communicable disease and who's going to foot the bill
when that person needs healthcare or can no longer take care of themselves? This
issue has nothing to do with human rights or discrimination, it has to do with not
spreading disease and paying the bills. I personally don't want to pay the bill for
those people no matter which country I choose to live in.

Meagan

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outsider
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have
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managed to
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Canadian
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[usenetquote2]> >Sounds reasonable to me.In fact,all health screening should be dropped because it[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >discriminates against the most vulnerable among us.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >The Provincial health systems can easily handle the influx of people with[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >AIDS,TB,Yellow Fever,malaria,Dengue fever and the thousands of other exotic[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >communicable diseases that can be found in the developing world.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >Jagzeur wrote:[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> What do you guys think of this?[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> "OTTAWA - Federal plans to test immigrants and refugees for HIV are[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> discriminatory and run counter to good public health practices, according to a[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> report due out on Tuesday.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> The Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network prepared the study, and says banning[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> immigrants on the grounds they carry the virus would go against United Nations[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> policies, as well as those of the World Health Organization. Health Minister[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> Allan Rock and Immigration Minister Elinor Caplin announced.... introducing[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> mandatory screening......[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> And the chair of the health minister's own council on AIDS says mandatory[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> screening would only stigmatize and marginalize people from certain ethnic[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> groups.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> "Right away, people look at this policy as a policy to keep out Africans and[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> Caribbeans," said Dr. Don Kilby.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> Besides,... keeping HIV positive immigrants out of the country won't stop the[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> spread of the disease... Kilby says most new cases of HIV are caused by unsafe[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> sex practices among people already living in Canada.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >>[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> Kilby points to the United States, where HIV positive immigrants were barred[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >> several years ago - and HIV infection rates continued to climb.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]