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Curiosity around a particular LMO/TWP "issue"

Curiosity around a particular LMO/TWP "issue"

Old Sep 5th 2008, 11:48 am
  #1  
Sempai
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Wink Curiosity around a particular LMO/TWP "issue"

Hello all.

I apologise for barging in and asking such a weird question right away. I am an it professional, usually brought into companies to learn about incremental, iterative software development methodologies, such as Scrum/XP or Lean. As such that is a highly specialised skill area which is barely covered in the official NOC list.

I am currently speaking with a rather well respected multi-national employer and while I am sure that their lawyers have loads of tricks up their sleeves I would want to hear your opinions.

I think that NOC code 0213 or 0013 could be "fitted" to apply, because apart from the specialisation that I need to do my job many of the descriptions fitted there also apply to what I do. What further complicates the matter is that I deliberately did not study Computer Sciences. I hold a University degree in Communication Sciences and Journalism, however the indicator seems to be that for NOC 0213 and 0013 the CIC agent (and probably Services canada as well) would expect be to have at least a B.S in computer sciences.

I have had a look at the CIC FW1 Guide which deals with "Foreign Workers" and it seems to clearly state that before issuing the Temporary Work Permit a significant overlap between the LMO and its NOC codes needs to be met.

Ability of the applicant to perform the work
The visa officer must make an assessment of the applicant’s ability to do the work for which they are being hired considering, among other criteria, the requirements noted on the LMO and any inherent requirements, whether explicitly stated on the LMO or not. The National Occupation Classification (NOC) is also a useful resource and guideline for evaluating an individual’s ability to do the work. While an applicant’s failure to meet the requirements of the NOC should not form the sole basis for a refusal, any discrepancy between the LMO and the NOC can be used as a basis to seek clarification regarding the offered job. Other than the requirements on the LMO, officers may also consider such inherent requirements as previous work experience and language ability,
where such requirements are relevant to the applicant’s ability to do the work.

My NOC code (0213) states amongst other things:

Employment requirements:

* A bachelor's or master's degree in computer science, business administration, commerce or engineering is usually required.

* Several years of experience in systems analysis, data administration, software engineering, network design or computer programming, including supervisory experience, are required.
While I have the several years of experience, especially in the field my employer is interested in (Scrum, XP, Lean etc...) I obviously do not have a BS or MS in computer science.

While I realise that my employer's HR department and lawyers need to worry about all this, I am very curious.
How would the officer take that into account provided the LMO is positive and I apply at the Port of Entry?
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Old Sep 5th 2008, 12:36 pm
  #2  
 
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Default Re: Curiosity around a particular LMO/TWP "issue"

Officer at POE or in visa post has the right to refuse work permit application, regardless positive LMO, if applicant doesn't meet educational requirements for the job as stated in the NOC description for particular occupation.

But in many cases the key phrase will be "is usually required".
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Old Sep 5th 2008, 12:57 pm
  #3  
Sempai
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Default Re: Curiosity around a particular LMO/TWP "issue"

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
Officer at POE or in visa post has the right to refuse work permit application, regardless positive LMO, if applicant doesn't meet educational requirements for the job as stated in the NOC description for particular occupation.

But in many cases the key phrase will be "is usually required".
Thank you, that was my understanding from reading the instructions. However that seems to be a bit contradictory. I have all the necessary skills to perform the job in question, it happens to be a highly specialised job as well. I simply chose to study something more interesting to me. So to me the fault is with the NOC as it has not recognised recent trends in software delivery and added a NOC code for people like myself.

I know that is a mute argument, so I guess I will simply be at the mercy of the officer

Thank you
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Old Sep 5th 2008, 1:03 pm
  #4  
 
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Default Re: Curiosity around a particular LMO/TWP "issue"

The problem lies with the "trust me" attitude too many applicants express. Processing officer cannot take your word in lieu of formal credentials and/or solid, verifiable evidence of your skills.
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Old Sep 5th 2008, 1:37 pm
  #5  
Sempai
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Default Re: Curiosity around a particular LMO/TWP "issue"

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
The problem lies with the "trust me" attitude too many applicants express. Processing officer cannot take your word in lieu of formal credentials and/or solid, verifiable evidence of your skills.
I will have to respect that. I do think that it is an incredible tough job those officers are doing. I am not concerned about verifable "proof" of my skills. There are licenses and of course I could easily bring along recommendations from prior employers. Because I have given public courses on the subject there are records of that as well. So I guess it is simply up to me to provide that additional information so that the officer may make up his mind because I sincerely doubt a CIC officer can judge whether I an a good Scrum coach or excel at coaching people to delivery better quality software unless I help him with hard evidence.

Thank you!
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Old Sep 5th 2008, 2:04 pm
  #6  
 
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Default Re: Curiosity around a particular LMO/TWP "issue"

Yes, it is your burden to make and prove your case beyond any doubts.
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