helcat12

Yes, it is.

I do not know why they pay for it to be run and staffed when it isn't actually providing a service to anyone of any value.

If only I could get my hands on that organisation I would so whip it into shape........

surroundsaund

Perfect answer and perfect analogy!

rubberduckofdeath

Yep, it's ironic that the system is so bad that people feel that have to do it and that the extra applications due to the slow system end up slowing it further!

helcat12

Yes, ironic and stupid!

Like I said, let me and the ITgeek duo Hawkmoon and Waggle get our hands on it and we would shape it up in no time.

It isn't rocket science to just tell people stuff they need to make an informed decision in the first place.
That would be a start.

Every time I think about the useless piece of c**p that is the "Come to Canada" tool on the website - how much money and time they invested in something that tells you at the end of a string of questions that you MIGHT be eligible to apply for immigration to Canada but doesn't identify the streams you could use (and which told us we weren't eligible when we clearly are, so it doesn't even get that right!) my blood pressure goes up

christmasoompa

Eh? It does tell you which stream you would be eligible for (if you are). I've just double checked it using hubby's info, and it said "Based on your answers, you may be eligible to come to Canada as a Skilled Worker." Seems pretty good to me, particularly for people with no idea of the visas available. Basically it's a free visa assessment tool, but it's up to people to check themselves if they definitely qualify and are eligible to apply.

Mind you, I'm surprised your blood pressure isn't sky high already!

helcat12

Maybe they have improved it since they first set it up and running, but there have been multiple users when it first appeared like us who tried it and it said we all didn't qualify.
If it is fixed now, why didn't they QC it before they put it live?
First rule of IT!

Also, it only seems to suggest Skilled Worker or not.
It doesn't give a full analysis and direct potential applicants to PNP or any other streams (of which there are several, as you know).

What they need is a simple electronic version of a branching tree diagram which uses the questions to direct people to all the streams they might be eligible for.

The website also needs to point out CLEARLY the major requirements of each stream and the benefits and also, most importantly, update the processing times based on a smaller and more recent sample to give everyone a better idea of how long they could be waiting.

It s ridiculous to say there is no data for FSW processing since June 2010.
Of course there is.

If they can update the TWP application timeline every week, then they can give a 6 monthly update on current processing for FSW now based on results since June 2010.
There have been a number of applications processed to completion since then and the timelines have differed substantially from MI1 candidates, so why are they not publishing them?

CIC's website provision would make anyone think they didn't want to encourage immigration, it is so difficult to navigate and understand.
That is why this forum is so popular after all.

christmasoompa

But, to be fair to CIC, if they spent all the time doing what you suggest (you know how often things change in immigration, if they had a 'branching tree diagram' it would have to be revised every month) then they'd have even less time for visa processing.

At the end of the day, they are a government organisation with little money and less staff than ideal, doing the best they can.

helcat12

I'd close the useless telephone line and use that money for this.
It doesn't take a genius to realise that for the purposes of immigration, having a telephone line that can only be accessed once you are within the country you wish to immigrate to has a very limited value.

Couple that with the fact that the staff are very poorly informed and you have a waste of money that needs to be ditched.

What was wrong with the old tool? They spent time and money on the new one and it didn't work properly and adds nothing to the information over the old one.
Waste of time and money.

It is amazing what a proper IT professional can do in a short space of time and the ease with which a properly constructed system can be managed.
They need to work smarter, not harder.

IMHO CIC has gone the way of most large and unwieldy publicly funded organisations.
They are using outdated systems which are ridiculously paper-orientated and slow, they have no proper QC, their internal and external communication is poor, their updates are poorly thought out, their different VO locations are all employing different processing procedures with varying degrees of efficiency and they are always playing catch-up to political decision-making which isn't considering the impact of that change.

If this was a company, it would be a recipe for disaster.

Why can some VOs can get their times down while others are in trouble with rising backlogs?
If I was an area manager and these were my branches, I would be looking very closely at those offices and seeing what they are doing differently and transfer best practice.

CIC might be doing the best they can but it clearly isn't working and if they don't do something soon they will have a backlog in certain countries which is a significant deterrent to immigrants and so skews their immigration profile.
Good candidates will just go elsewhere and the Canadian economy which by all accounts increasingly needs skilled workers will begin to suffer.

rubberduckofdeath

I agree with pretty much everything you say. BUT...

There will always be people who will jump through hoops and play the waiting game. The numbers of these people will be higher than that which Canada will ever let in.

There's no huge incentive for Canada to invest huge sums of money in something which can tick over with less.

So we're all stuck waiting...

helcat12

I like it when people agree with me on this forum - it happens so rarely

Like most publicly-funded organisations, the immigration system is appallingly inefficient, fragmented and woolly.

Change could be implemented which would actually result in cost savings and a better service.
Everyone would be a winner.

Get a seriously organised and clear-thinking businessman (or woman) onto this and it could be transformed.

Me and my IT team are ready and waiting to parachute in and sort it all out and we would only charge a modest fee plus expenses

In fact, I would do it for PR (plus a small bonus in CAD$)!!

CanadaJimmy

Helcat for Immigration Minister!

Totally agree with everything you said. CIC needs to be lean and fast, they could simplify everything, creating a much more limited number of problem scenarios which could arise. And the Call Centre might then be able to help people who call since the list of problems they're likely to deal with will be much lower.

Simpler routes, make much more stuff online fillable and forms simpler and smarter.

What is interesting to consider the type of person who are willing to wait and suffer the abuse, which is not going to be every personality type. I can imagine many firey businessy types being put off by the system.

helcat12

Oh, you are too kind

Not to mention that people in any fairly comfortable Westernised nation where living conditions, job opportunities, pay and conditions, housing, education and health are all good will not be short of other options; the main one being just staying where they are already!
If Canada makes immigration difficult and/or lengthy for good applicants, people with a choice will either go to Australia, New Zealand or somewhere else or just stay in the UK.

However, nationals of countries where these excellent benefits do not exist for the masses,where living standards and wages are low,opportunities are few and where political instability is a major issue will be prepared to do just about anything to get into Canada and so will wait it out for however long it takes.

Canadian immigration is at risk of being swamped by foreign nationals from some of the poorest, most corrupt and most politically unstable countries in the world.

(Although when you look at the VO timelines - Sao Paulo, New Delhi, Manila, Rabat, Tel Aviv, Bucharest, Bogota...... they are all running at much lower timelines than London and Buffalo)

I am not doing down the individuals in these countries, who deserve to be free of oppression and fear and live a better life but I am sure that what Canada wants is to be an aspirational immigration destination for applicants, not a last-ditch refuge of the desperate.

christmasoompa

I agree, it's rubbish, but for some people it's the only option (not everybody has access to the internet).

The old tool was useless, because it didn't tell you which stream you qualified for. IMO, the new one is much better and far more informative for somebody that has no clue about visas. It does the job just fine.

Good job it's not a company then.

Because resources are allocated differently, because each VO gets a massively varying amount of applications, because all VO's have different rules/checklists, etc, etc. The same as any large organisation, each individual office will operate differently and at different timescales. Plus of course, many VO's in more 'third world' countries don't have the same number of applicants because people there often just can't *afford* to emigrate.

What makes you think it 'increasingly needs skilled workers'? I think the very opposite is true - hence the introduction of 'the list' in 2008, which was purely to reduce the number of people that were eligible to apply, and then they reduced the list again in 2010, again to reduce application numbers. I'd also suggest the number of rejected LMO's these days (a few years ago it was almost unheard of to hear of a negative LMO) is a fair indication that foreign workers just aren't needed as they once were.

Maybe we'll have to disagree on this one. I think CIC are doing a good job given their limited resources and don't understand why some people (I don't mean you specifically btw) seem to spend their lives getting stressed and jumping up and down about exactly what CIC are doing, and overanalyzing every timeline.

I'm also in the queue waiting for PR, but think that I'm very lucky that I can even apply to immigrate to Canada (I couldn't to other countries, for instance, the US), and that I am in a safe country whilst my visa application is processed which I don't think takes long again compared to other countries. Again, using the US as an example, there are people who wait 20 years - yes, you did read that right - for a visa.

Different points of view I guess, and JMO, but I think CIC are much maligned and sometimes it makes me cringe when I read what names people on the forum call their workers. Particularly when I know Jim Humphries and other present or ex-CIC employees may read it and take offence!

helcat12

Because Minister Kenney said so.

"Kenney has said that any labour force growth will need to be completely supplied by immigration within five years."

From this news report;
http://www.cireport.ca/2011/10/ndp-c...pplicants.html

christmasoompa

Oh, well, if he says so, it must be right. He never gets anything wrong or gives out misinformation does he?!

Your link isn't working btw.