(Another) ETA question

Old Sep 7th 2016, 10:05 pm
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Default (Another) ETA question

Apologies if this has been covered in another thread, I've searched for some time and can't find an exact match to our current situation.

My husband and I both hold dual citizenship UK/Canadian, and we are moving back permanently on October 28th. My question is we have two children, aged 4 and 9 - both born in the UK - we have applied for and been approved for ETA's for both of them, but are now concerned we could experience problems at both the UK airport and Toronto. They do not have proof of citizenship yet or Canadian passports. We have today completed the application forms for proof of citizenship and should have all the relevant evidence etc gathered by tomorrow ready to send off.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Karen
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Old Sep 7th 2016, 10:10 pm
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Default Re: (Another) ETA question

Originally Posted by Anerak
Apologies if this has been covered in another thread, I've searched for some time and can't find an exact match to our current situation.

My husband and I both hold dual citizenship UK/Canadian, and we are moving back permanently on October 28th. My question is we have two children, aged 4 and 9 - both born in the UK - we have applied for and been approved for ETA's for both of them, but are now concerned we could experience problems at both the UK airport and Toronto. They do not have proof of citizenship yet or Canadian passports. We have today completed the application forms for proof of citizenship and should have all the relevant evidence etc gathered by tomorrow ready to send off.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Karen
Well the argument would be they have no official documentation indicating that they actually are Canadian citizens so therefore they could travel on their UK passports and eTA. Even though they can get Canadian citizenship by descent its not automatic until official channels are followed. As long as you are able to get on the plane to fly thats all that matters as CBSA at the POE on landing wouldn't really care.
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Old Sep 8th 2016, 3:45 pm
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Default Re: (Another) ETA question

Hi Karen,

You and your husband have Canadian passports (or travel documents)?

I mention this as the airline won't let Canadian citizens board without one or the other.

Sarah

(Apologies if you already know this, just stating it for the benefit of other readers).
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Old Sep 8th 2016, 9:18 pm
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Default Re: (Another) ETA question

Hi Sarah,
Yes we both have Canadian passports, we have managed to finally get confirmation from the Canadian consulate in London today that we are doing the right thing in applying for ETA's for our children. It's been so confusing trying to figure it all out - just relieved that we won't get any grief at the airport!

Thanks for your comments
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Old Sep 11th 2016, 4:35 am
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Default Re: (Another) ETA question

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian
Well the argument would be they have no official documentation indicating that they actually are Canadian citizens so therefore they could travel on their UK passports and eTA. Even though they can get Canadian citizenship by descent its not automatic until official channels are followed. As long as you are able to get on the plane to fly thats all that matters as CBSA at the POE on landing wouldn't really care.
Thanks for this answer. I've asked this a million and one times in other threads and no one answers me. I was under the impression Canadian citizenship by descent is automatic - therefore answering the question of "Do you have Canadian citizenship" on the eTA application for the child with "No" would be lying

So unlike British citizenship by descent, Canadian citizenship by descent is only valid once you have a citizenship certificate?

My only concern would be at the airport, why would CBSA let the kids in, to live, as British citizens entering on an eTA/visitor record ???
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Old Sep 11th 2016, 9:45 am
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Default Re: (Another) ETA question

Originally Posted by Gozit
Thanks for this answer. I've asked this a million and one times in other threads and no one answers me. I was under the impression Canadian citizenship by descent is automatic - therefore answering the question of "Do you have Canadian citizenship" on the eTA application for the child with "No" would be lying

So unlike British citizenship by descent, Canadian citizenship by descent is only valid once you have a citizenship certificate?

My only concern would be at the airport, why would CBSA let the kids in, to live, as British citizens entering on an eTA/visitor record ???
Taken from CIC Manual ENF 4
9.4 Establishing citizenship without documents
Canadian citizens returning to Canada by air usually have to provide proof of identity and citizenship to get on the flight. Canadian citizens arriving at land borders, however, will frequently be without satisfactory documentary proof of Canadian citizenship. In these cases, the border services officer should question the person until the border services officer is satisfied with the person’s claim of Canadian citizenship. Once the border services officer is satisfied that the person is a Canadian citizen, the person must be allowed to enter Canada without further delay.

In cases of where a child is born abroad to a Canadian citizen the Citizenship Act allows the child to apply for Registration of Canadian citizenship therefore becoming a Canadian citizen.
Although the Act says they are a Canadian citizen the child has no documentary evidence to prove this (passport, Canadian birth certificate, Certificate of citizenship etc) so how could they prove citizenship to a CBSA officer on entering Canada? So without such I can ask questions of how they are a citizen and if satisfied allow them in even though they would be showing me a UK passport and have eTA. In these cases I would not issue visitor records but be instructing them to get the required documentation if travelling in the future.

The question regarding eTA would only be a lie if they held documentation stating they are a citizen as opposed to not having applied for it but it would be given if they applied.

Also from the manual
A Canadian provincial birth certificate is a good indicator of Canadian citizenship but does not contain a photograph. The border services officer must therefore be satisfied that the person is the rightful holder.

To get a passport you must provide evidence of Canadian citizenship. The passport office wouldn't just give you a passport if you turned up and said I was born outside of Canada to a Canadian parent so can I have a passport.
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Old Sep 11th 2016, 11:45 pm
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Default Re: (Another) ETA question

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian
Taken from CIC Manual ENF 4
9.4 Establishing citizenship without documents
Canadian citizens returning to Canada by air usually have to provide proof of identity and citizenship to get on the flight. Canadian citizens arriving at land borders, however, will frequently be without satisfactory documentary proof of Canadian citizenship. In these cases, the border services officer should question the person until the border services officer is satisfied with the person’s claim of Canadian citizenship. Once the border services officer is satisfied that the person is a Canadian citizen, the person must be allowed to enter Canada without further delay.

In cases of where a child is born abroad to a Canadian citizen the Citizenship Act allows the child to apply for Registration of Canadian citizenship therefore becoming a Canadian citizen.
Although the Act says they are a Canadian citizen the child has no documentary evidence to prove this (passport, Canadian birth certificate, Certificate of citizenship etc) so how could they prove citizenship to a CBSA officer on entering Canada? So without such I can ask questions of how they are a citizen and if satisfied allow them in even though they would be showing me a UK passport and have eTA. In these cases I would not issue visitor records but be instructing them to get the required documentation if travelling in the future.

The question regarding eTA would only be a lie if they held documentation stating they are a citizen as opposed to not having applied for it but it would be given if they applied.

Also from the manual
A Canadian provincial birth certificate is a good indicator of Canadian citizenship but does not contain a photograph. The border services officer must therefore be satisfied that the person is the rightful holder.

To get a passport you must provide evidence of Canadian citizenship. The passport office wouldn't just give you a passport if you turned up and said I was born outside of Canada to a Canadian parent so can I have a passport.
Thanks, that clears it up...

The reason i contrasted it with British law is with British citizenship by descent you CAN just turn up and say "I was born to a British citizen abroad, here is their birth certificate and mine"* and they will issue a British passport in the normal timeframe within a few weeks like they would any other citizen. With Canada, you have to apply for the proof of citizenship first (which takes seemingly forever.)

*In most cases.
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